ds 4 very overweight....please i need advice

[wideratthehips]

okay, please don't shoot the messenger!

ds is middle child so we are a family of 5.

when he was born he was 10lbs 8 (other children were 7 to 8lbs)

he has ALWAYS ALWAYS been very hungry, HV when he was a baby said i must reduce portion size (looked in tiny pot of pureed carrot...sheesh) after breast feeding when he went on to formula/cows milk i watered it down (probably not good but he was always desperate, but so big)

we are all a healthy family, other children are tall for age and skinny, i'm 5'7 and 10.5st dh is 5'11 and 12st

so pre school said today that he went white as a sheet and said he was so hungry they had to bring snack time forward and he perked up and also perked up after lunch time.
i'm not sure what height he is but is average to his peers i weighed him this evening and he was 23.5kg...2yr old sister got on and she was 13kgs.

now we eat health food...i cook all our family meals from HFW cookbooks in rotation. we never have puddings he has normal cereal in the morning snacks are fruit/veg. there is usually achocolate coin for all the children after school to get them home and i'm at a loss.

i got a fright today after pre school and came home and have made a drs appointment for monday but i just know the dr will raise his eyebrows and say portion control!

he scoots everywhere but does have low stamina compared to the rest of us as a family, but we are active and do a lot of outdoor yomping.

anyone else have an overweight child that can give me some helpful advice?

Apple juice, low sugar cereal, yogurt and fruit is a LOT of breakfast for a 4yo. Portion size is key, I think, as much as food choices -- even healthy food will put weight on if they're eating a lot of it.

I do restrict the food intake of my youngest because she absolutely loves eating for the sake of it. Now it's great that she enjoys food and will try pretty much anything, but it's less great that she will actually carry on eating way beyond the point of not feeling hungry any more. We've talked a lot about knowing when is enough, and since I've cut down her food intake and increased her exercise by making her cycle to places that I would previously have driven or taken the bus to, she has stretched out a lot without gaining any or much weight, and is now around the 50th centile for weight, exactly the same as for height, ie in proportion. She was also nearly 10lb at birth, but has gone down the centiles as she grew.

She is 6. Her daily food intake would look like this:

Breakfast: small amount of cereal eg one weetabix or little portion of fruit and fibre (the kind of quantity you get in those small variety packets, ie less than most adults would probably put in a bowl) with half a banana sliced on top of it, plus semi-skimmed milk. Water to drink.

Snack: they have fruit at school

Lunch: She has school dinners, which is stodgy, but since she's not overweight I'm okay with that. If I were doing a packed lunch it would be eg. small sandwich (one slice of bread cut in half with filling) plus veg (carrot/cucumber/tomato), a homemade muesli bar and a piece of fruit.

Post-school snack: piece of fruit, or small piece of h/made cake

Supper: eg. very small portion of pasta/rice/potatoes with larger proportion of sauce and vegetables. If eg. f/fingers or sausages, then no more than two. Fruit or plain yoghurt for pudding, water to drink.

FWIW I certainly wouldn't use artificial sweeteners in anything for a child, nor do things like porridge need sugar. Much better if they get used to not having things sweetened. I suspect people will think the portions I'm giving her are very small, but she has plenty of energy and is growing in proportion to her height, so she's certainly not starving, nor does she complain unduly about feeling hungry. I think they do need training in what constitutes sensible quantities, particularly if they're the youngest in the family and see everyone else having adult-sized portions.

GregorSamsa Personally, I would find that diet too low in calories for a 6 year old. If one imagines that fruit and veg are fairly light on the calories, then all she is having is: a weetabix, half a sandwich, very small amount of pasta plus some semi skimmed milk and sometimes a yogurt. that has got to be coming in at 800 calories? Too little I think but could be wrong.

Bamboo stalks - don't forget the school dinner.

It is very useful to see exactly what your DD eats GregorSamsa.

DS does eat more than that, but not hugely. He also likes weetabix (with no sugar on). I think I am too late on no sugar in porridge, when he was a baby he had no sugar but I don't think he'd eat it now. I do only put half a teaspoon though.

He has one slice of bread (maybe one and a half) for a sandwich too, then cucumber and a banana.

I am definitely going to look at the portion sizes. It must be that. As you say he eats for the enjoyment of eating.

The one slice of bread, cucumber & banana is for lunch.

mummyosaurus

where you given any advice at the hospital appointment, or was it not the time to ask? did the nurse express any concern?

do you have any other children, and how are they in comparison (not fair to compare but just as a benchmark)

My DD (6) eats a very similar diet to Gregasauras's DD (except has a full sarnie at lunch time). She's teeny but doesn't want anything else.

I think with children its what they eat, not how much. And what is key is physical exercise.

We have to be careful not to project our food anxieties onto them, weight-loss as we understand it shouldn't be applied to children IMHO. Their weight fluctates dramatically with growth spurts anyway.

Really interesting in the fruit/sugar highs and lows issue. Fruit smoothies are so tempting to bump up their 5 a-day, but infact not very healthy with all that fructose. I still dilute fruit-juice, 9 years on.

Lower the sugar, up the trips to the park is all I can say. Any local rugby clubs he can get involved with?

DD almost 6 is average size

DH skinny but does watch what he eats.

I am quite very overweight (5'8" dress size 20). But always dieting BUT very careful not to mention my weight issues in front of kids.

The nurse weighed and measured him then sent me home to look on the NHS website. Do you think I should visit GP? Don't want to take DS with me though. My mum shoved my weight down my throat all my childhood so I am very certain I don't want to do that the DS.

I've emailed DH at work and he is being a bit dismissive. Says that because DS has a big head that weighs a lot (DS wears an adult medium size bike helmet, kids ones too small!). If you saw DS you would think he is solidly built but no one would call him fat. He is the tallest 4 yr old I know.

I am feeling guilty and responsible, that'll be because I am...

Ohforforsakes (like yr name!)

I am with you on the projecting anxieties, I will guard against it.

We did try a football class but he would not co operate. He has just lost his stabilisers so we are going to be bike riding every where. Still working on road sense, balance and steering at the same time so not yet practical to bike everywhere.

Soft play also good for a run around, so hang the expense we'll head down there a few times until it's warm enough (for me) to go to the park.

Was his weight percentile much bigger than his height? You said he was 98th percentile. If he's that for both then he's in proportion surely??

Maryz what you said has really helped me, at 34, understand myself a bit more. I am not diabetic (as far as I know) but have mments where I really crash and I cannot get food in quick enough and feel very bad (and i do love my food also) so am really going to bear in mind what you said thanks!

I have the opposite problem with my DS - he is 3 and a half and just 14kg at best. That is keeping him on full fat milk too. he doesn't like cake or chocolate particuarly or bisuits etc (not that I'm saying he should!) but he's so fussy and seems to have LOADS of energy. Think he is more like my Dad - loads of nervous energy as it were and can't sit still (not in a hyper way!) He also has a big head!

reup, 98th percentile was the result the NHS BMI calculator gave me I assumed that is for weight and height, but I am going to have another look, because it's a good question.

I think that children on the 98th percentile may be obese, end of. But I'm going to research it a bit more once tea and bedtime out of the way.

Maxy, my daughter was tiny and didn't put on weight as a little one, so I sort of understand your problems too.

Let's tell ourselves the big heads are to house their big brains

Ds is 6 and is 98th centile for height and 75th for weight, so tall and skinny. His daily diet is:

Breakfast
Adult portion of porridge plus large yoghurt (Muller corner one)

Lunch
School provided. Always eats it but chooses fruit or yoghurt for dessert rather than stodgy pudding.

Snack
Toasted crumpet with butter plus chocolate muffin (snacks vary depending on what is available, this is what he had yesterday).

Tea
Adult portion of cottage pie plus veg
May or may not have dessert - fruit/yoghurt usually.

Looks a lot and is more than I eat. However he does not stop, always running around and even when sitting he is still moving.

What he does have (and which I wish I had) is a very strong sense of when he has had enough. Even if it is his absolute favourite food he will leave something if he is full, even if it is the last mouthful. He eats a lot but it is mostly healthy. He has always been skinny.

Mummy - my DH is ALWAYS saying taht about his head! My family have very small heads and his measurement is almost same as mine - yet he looks in proprtion if that akes sense?

Mollie - even though my DS is extraordinarily fussy (grrr) he is the same - strong sense of when full- even if it is sweets or something he really loves

Stopping when full is a natural thing to do, but we were brought up to clear our plates and eat what we're given. But that was as a result of food rationing in the war! We really need to learn to listen to our bodies again, and make sure our children don't stop listening to theirs.

Sorry for getting names muddled earlier BTW!

Should add Ds doesn't eat the same thing every day. What I posted is typical. If we eat out, eg Pizza Express he will eat adult portions too. If I persuade him to choose the children's menu he ends up still being hungry.

Aah I see now it must 98th percentile for BMi. The top 2 percent of the scale . That wouldn't necessarily mean 98 for height and weight. I imagine the weight is more than the height. My older son is 98th for both and pretty slim. My nephew was the same but has a ver big frame. You can see every bone though! My younger sons weight is flightlt more than height but paeds aren't concerned.

Wider, my DS2 aged 5 was 10lb 11oz born and is still hefty he was 3stone 3lbs when I weighed him the other night. He doesn't eat even half as much as his brother (who is skinny) but he isn't anywhere near as active. He likes to sit and play and make up complicated scenarios with his lego figures etc, he has always been like this, whereas his brother can't stop moving.

DS2 doesn't eat very much, if he has eaten a big lunch he will barely touch his dinner. However, I am going to look at Gi figures for food, as I think he could eat healthier. Will also take Maryz's advice.

It is interesting to compare, isn't it? I don't think I'm starving my dd, her weight is going up in proportion to her height, and she's got loads of energy.

Interestingly, her 12yo brother who is extremely active (probably doing 8 hours + a week of exercise, mainly rugby and athletics) doesn't eat massively more than than his sister, though in his case I've never needed to restrict food as he's not a big eater. He would probably have two weetabix for breakfast, a sandwich plus fruit and muesli bar for lunch, a biscuit or piece of fruit when he comes back from school, and probably about half an adult portion of supper (if I give him more he just leaves the rest). He's slim and very muscly, but not skinny.

Maybe mine just don't need that many calories, or perhaps I'm underestimating the nutritional content of my home-made muesli bars.

Lizzylou

this is just how ds is. not as manic active and always moving. he likes to kneels in front of the sofa or his bed (facing it) and have complicated scenarios/conversations with his cars/toy figures hiding under cushions and doing all sorts.

he isn't actually into watching television (strange i know) so isn't on his bum a lot.

i would love him to start using a bike, i think i'm going to get dh to attach the little child bike to the tag along thing and see if he likes that and then try and get him to cycle home

Wideratthehips

To get DS cycling we used a balance buddy. We had to import it but they are available here soon. Take a look on US ebay. It was magic and I am sure they will have a resale value when you are done with it.

DS had scrambled eggs on toast (1 slice wholemeal stoneground) and water for breakfast. He was ok. I am going to try no/very low sugar breakfasts for 2 weeks and see how we get on. Plus more exercise and be as stern as I can with treats, without making him concious of it.