Please help – coughing, vomiting, coughing baby, 11 months. No weight gain for 3 months. At end of tether. Sorry, long post…

[designerbaby]

HI all,
Going to the GP (again) tomorrow, but I'm posting here in case anyone has any insights or experiences that might help get to the bottom of this, that I might be able to suggest the GP considers. It'll be my fourth visit to the GP about the persistent cough, my second about the vomiting.

A brief timeline of what's been going on:

Early december DD2 develops rash, then nasty cough. Stops eating. GP says chest infection, prescribes Anti-Bs. Start the course, fly to SA for Christmas coughing inmproves, eating picks up once Anti-B course finished.

Jan, back in UK, cough is back. Eating sporadic. Good days/weeks, bad days/weeks. Visit GP 2/3 times to ask about the cough. Told "it's just a virus".

Beginning Feb: Diarrhoea lasting several days. No other symptoms apart from the cough. Eating OK.

11-13 Feb: First major vomiting session. 3 days, nothing staying down. Typically she will eat, then ten-15 minutes later coughs, gags and vomits. Sometimes though the coughing/vomiting comes even if she hasn't eaten. 1 diarrhoea poo on the 11th. Take to GP, but by the time we go, the vomiting has stopped, GP says gastro bug, and the cough is still "just a cold."

Following week and a half of good eating, but persistent cough remains. No vomiting.

Last thursday the vomiting is back, but only for a day. By Friday she's fine again.

Saturday evening it all starts up, this time before each vomiting session her temperature spikes to 39-40°. She can't keep Calpol down, or breastmilk.

Today she vomited her breakfast, her mid morning breast-feed and her lunch ? not that she'd eaten much at any of these meals anyway. Her temperature was high, we gave Calpol, she vomited.

I thought "enough is enough" and went to A&E. Which was about as helpful as a chocolate teapot. She (of course) doesn't vomit while we're there, though she does cough.

Doc says it may be a virus, but says her chest is "clear". Says little and often with fluids, which we're trying to do anyway.

Presribes a course of Anti-biotics in case the chest is bacterial, but we can;t get it filled as the hospital pharmacy is out, and we can't get it anywhere else as hospital scripts are non-transferable.

Says we should mention "reflux" to our GP. ??? If it was reflux, would we get week(s) without vomiting? Wouldn't it be constant? Dunno.

Anyway, does this all ring any bells with anyone?

They weighed her, she's the same weight as she was at her 8 month check. . She's skinny, white as a sheet, and yesterday and today has been really lethargic.

Her sleeping has gone to pot since January too. Not that it's necessarily linked, but she'd always slept like a dream and is now waking 2 hourly on average. I don;t mind so much - at night she'll have a breastfeed and keep it down, generally, so at least that's some calories in.

But I'm worried sick for the poor little thing.

Please help if you can, happy to hear anything which might help us get somewhere with the GP tomorrow...

Thanks,
db
xx

Hi Pixie - oh how lovely that it's you!

Shamefully I'm rarely on here these days - only when I need help, it seems, which is horribly selfish, really.

But am back at work, which is really quite stressful, and means I'm working most evenings in addition to my three days in the studio, and we moved the computer upstairs, which means I'm not really on in the days as it would leave the kids unsupervised two floors down...

How is everyone from the old March 2010 thread? Is there still one going? I see a bit of the babies in facebook, but that's about the limit of things for me - seems like I an only just keep up with one online interface at a time!

Milk allergy? Really? I honestly hadn't considered such a thing... She's still breastfed, (having utterly reused all attempts with bottles, formula and all that) and my diet hasn;t changed. She's always loved yoghurts and stuff, had them from 6 months on with no ill effects? Is this something they can grow in to as well as out of?

The rash was a weird short-lived thing which looked like hives, and hasn't reappeared since. Thought it was one of those weird ones they sometimes get with the onset of another infection. She had it, went off her food and then got a cough. But it was gone within 12 hours...

Re: allergies though - I've been looking sideways at the cat all evening and wondering. DD2 LOVES that cat, but could his hairy, shedding self have anything to do with all this? Could it have anything to do with the fact that DD1, while otherwise healthy also has a persistent chesty cough which we can't seem to get to the bottom of?

Will mention both of the above to the GP though, and see what he says.

Suspect he thinks I'm neurotic though...

Lovely to hear from you though, pixie, and thanks for the heads up on the milk...

db
xx

I read that and thought milk allergy.
Last year from Jan until April my 1 yr old had vomiting and a runny bum every 2 weeks. He'd be very ill for 4 days.

He became the silent miserable baby. He didn't sleep well. He was lethargic, not interactive.
Viral the Drs told us.
They referred me to the HV cos they thought I was a bonkers mother.
HV had us referred to a dietician cos she saw a pattern and said it was likely to an allergy.

Ask to be referred to a dietician and gastric consultant. Tell the Dr it would save you all time and money to do this instead of you going to the surgery every week.

And if it is an allergy - there's lots of help on here.

Nothing to add,but bumping for you-it sounds so distressing I feel for your poor little dd.Really hope she is better soon.
Waves hello to fab pixie!

Ds1 used to get terribly ill with rashes, swollen glands and a terrible wheezy cough.

It was the cat, I am afraid.

I also thought dairy allergy/intolerance when I read your post.

Thanks everyone. I'll flag up with the GP about cat and milk allergies...

DD1 does have an inhaler for her cough - doesn't seem to do much for her though, but she's quite reluctant to use it (with spacer) so am unsure how much she's actually getting. Also unsure when to give it - it's not like the cough has sudden bad bouts - which we would then treat with an inhaler - it's kind of always there, you know? And the GP said not to use it contantly, just 'when necessary' so it's a bit hard to know when to do that.

We tried DD2 with it yesterday, and it seemed to help the coughing a bit. Maybe. Dunno.

Dealing with the cough is one thing, the whole vomiting thing really is confusing the issue though... Is she just vomiting because of the cough? Or is it another, separate symptom is itself?

Just finding it all very jumbled and confusing. Hope GP will be able to make some sense out of it all...

Am thinking that the cat may have to se out his twilight years at my Mums though, which makes me very . He predates both husband and kids and is a lovely old thing, and the DDs adore him. That said he'll probably enjoy his twilight years more when living peacefully in the country unmolested by overly-affectionate toddlers. But still. .

Milk though. I just think it's odd, that having happily eaten gallons of yoghurt etc from six months, she'd suddenly develop an allergy at nine/ten months?

And would the gastro symptoms come and go like they do?

The cough is always there, see, but not the vomiting. And we haven't had diarrhoea for three weeks now, depsite everything else being worse.

I'm really very confused.

Pixie - some of our lot pregnant again? How exciting!!
Will pop over and say hi when a less stressed out.

Hugs to all there, though...

Thanks also Helly and Littlefrogs. Aprreciate all of you taking the time.

db
xx

Hi Designer,

It does all sound very confusing, especially to someone who is not a doctor.

Firstly, I think that when you have recurring problems, it is well worth a referral to a paediatrician. There are also paediatric dieticians but I would go to a paediatrician first to rule out non dietary causes.

Firstly, a fever suggests infection. There are other rare causes of fever but it is 99% likely it is due to an infection. It could well be that your baby has been really unlucky and just had a string of infections. I think they just remain rundown and are vulnerable to the next one. Reflux is possible but it normally starts a lot earlier. Also, as you say, it would be a constant if it were only reflux. On the other hand, mild reflux does make a child's stomach more vulnerable so that any fever causes vomiting (we had this).

I would not worry about the weight in itself unless your daughter is terribly thin. If she has not eaten well due to a series of gastric bugs, it would not be usrprising that she has failed to put on weight. Also, if they weighed her during a period of illness, she was likely dehydrated at the time.

Practically, firstly ask for paediatric referral and do not take no for an answer. I would not assume allergies unless she is diagnosed and especially not give away a cat who might not have anything to do with anything. If you are not allergic and the cat has always been there, it is unlikely to be the problem. Secondly, always try to bring a fever down before offering food. The calpol/calprofen 2 hourly cycle is worth trying. I found our son was far more likely to retain food if his fever was lowered when he actually ate.

I think it is interesting that she improved in S.A. and it does just make me suspect an unlucky run of infections coupled with weakened immunity. I suspect and hope that the spring should see her return to health.

Ok, have GP appointment at 4.15 for both of them... So anxious this morning, DD2s nappy was completely dry this morning and she'd had it on all night. She's very grumpy and lethargic this morning. Checked her weight into her red book - she's dropped from the 75th centile to below the 25th since her eight month check...
db
xx

Poor you, and poor DD. It sounds awful.

Could you move the cat to your mum's house for a week or so to see if that improves things? You wrote that the coughing improved while you were in SA - perhaps because the cat was absent.

DS would often vomit when he had a cough, I think that it is not uncommon.

If she is coughing up calpol and you cannot get the fever down, ask at the pharmacy for paracetemol suppositories. That way you know exactly how much medicine she is taking. I think your GP can prescribe them.

Haven't had time to read all the replies so someone may have suggested this. My DD1 has a condition which means she has recurrent chest problems and I may be barking up the wrong tree because of that but if I was in your shoes and she hasn't had one I would be asking for a chest x ray to confirm once and for all that her chest is clear. We have on occassion had my DD chest listened to and told its clear to go on and have an xray which has shown there is infection in the lungs. A cough going on this long should be investigated. Indeed last winter after a spell of pneumonia (I'm not suggesting thats whats wrong by the way) we were told that if there was any cough at all after 6 weeks we would need another xray to make sure the chest was clear. The coughing could be causing the vomitine (or vice versa) reflux does indeed cause a cough so this should be ruled out too. And the diaorea could be caused byt her swallowing gunk from coughing if you see what I mean. My first step would be to get the x ray and then as someone else suggested get a referral to a paed.

Designer,

I would not be too anxious. Although, this is easy advice to give and far harder to do when it concerns one's own babies/toddlers.

The 25th centile is not a concern at all. I often post that our baby dropped to the 0.4th centile due to reflux (and is still prob on the 10th or so at 20 months, though we have stopped weighing him). It is not a badge of honour but just meant to reassure people that weight is not a serious issue (of itself) until it gets really low. Babies are always sad and lethargic if off colour. After all, we are pretty sad and lethargic when we feel grotty and we know what is going on.

I cannot see how someone could get rid of an animal on a trial or any other basis unless you knew it was the problem. I guess that just depends on one's attitude to pets. Of course, children come first but most can tolerate living with a pet and do get acclimatised after a while.

Please do ask for paediatric referral though and let a specialist have a look at your daughter.

Hi all - it's so kind of you all to take the time to reply (even to rad my massive post!).

The cat could have a sabbatical with my mum to try and rule that out of the equation... The DDs would be heartbroken, but they'll forget quite quickly and it would be worth it to at least rule out a variable - DD1 has been coughing for pretty much 2 years now...

It doesn't seem to take much coughing to make DD2 vomit, which is odd. It's not like she's coughing for two or three minutes and then vomits, it's just a couple of - very chesty - coughs and bluergh.

DH gave her some motillium this morning before breakfast (we had dome in the cupboard from DD1, and, so far, breakfast seems to have stayed down. I'm not usually one for busking it with medication, but felt a bit desperate this morning. I'll ask the GP but if if gets the vomiting under control, even in the short term...?

I know it could just be a run of infections and a weakened immune system as a result - a viscious circle - I don't know whether this would be a good thing to hear or not - it would be good if there was nothing more serious, obviously, but would also mean that we'd just have to struggle on ad infinitum, which is a distressing prospect.

I will push for a paed ref. For both of them, I think, but am sceptical as to whether thus will bd forthcoming. DH iscoming home from work early tocome along to the appt. For backup...

Db
xx

Larry
If the DDs are allergic to cats, they will not get used to it in time. I suggested a trial period because this is a relatively easy way or ruling out a cat allergy. If you go on holiday, you leave your cat in a cattery for a couple of weeks. The cat would be at DB's mum so not abandoned.

I have a dog and I adore her but if it were her on my DC's health, then I am afraid she would have to be rehomed.

about the diahorrea- could it be loose stools from breastfeeding. my son has probable asthma and gets recurrent chest infections- he wont eat when he is ill and also seems to gag, he does usually breastfeed and conseuently his poos are like new born baby poos.
could it be her tonsils?

I would check out the allergy thread....loads over there about allergies and how they manifest themselves!

larrygrylls - IMO it is well worth trialling the removing of the cat.

Ds1 was extremely ill due to allergy to our (much loved)cat. I am not talking about a few sniffles - he had fever, swollen glands, headache, vomiting, nose bleeds, croup. It was grim. Because he was so ill it took a while for us to realise that it was an allergy. We actually thought he had something sinister.

He is now in his 20s and still can't go near a cat, or a house where there are cats because he develops facial swelling, streaming eyes, wheezing, headache and nausea.

I am not against removing the cat if necessary. However, a trial removal which may coincide with recovery from a viral infection will prove nothing. Have a proper allergy test and if she is allergic, then the cat has to go. If not, however, you can keep the cat.

And, 3little, what you are talking about is real allergy, which is serious. A lot of people witter on about intolerances etc, which have very little basis in science. Dairy products are ridiculously maligned and many women cut dairy products out (which are hard to replace nutritionally) with very little evidence.

Poor things (all of you).

To be fair to both kids and animals, personally I'd get them tested properly for cat allergy before even considering getting rid of the cat. After all, even if the cat goes and lives away for a week or two, I would have thought your house would still have quite a lot of cat allergens in it.

Also I know somebody with a cat allergy who lives with his OH's three cats - he can manage as long as they're not allowed in the bedroom.

Hope you get to the bottom of this soon.

Pixie
Oh, ok. Apologies if I misunderstood.

Tbh, I don't really trust allergy test. DH has been tested for allergies to certain things and officially is not allergic, but reacts to these things.

My DD1 didn't vomit quite as often as it sounds like your DD does; her symptoms started at 7 months and included: frequent vomiting, constant diarrhoea (if not, then chronic constipation), no weight gain for a year, no energy ...finally a GP took some notice of me saying there was something wrong with her and referred her to a paed for further tests. Turns out she has coeliac disease and 2 weeks after going gluten free was a changed child (the beginning of her symptoms coincided with me introducing gluten just after 6 months).

So it might be worth asking for a coeliac blood test...they can be inconclusive in children though, so even if you did test and got a negative result, it might be worth going gluten free for a while to see if it helps at all.

Hi everyone,
Right, upshot is that GP thinks that DD2 basically has the mother of all viruses - there's one which is striking everyone down with a horrible cough, apparently. Had it himself last week and was off work for three days - for the first time in ten years, apparently! Says in little ones everything is so close together that it's likely the mucous and cough is causing the vomiting - plus that the virus enters the tumy and can cause tummy upset too. Also said that as her eating has been affected, then her immune system would be low, and she'd be mre likely to get anything flying around - so, as many of you have said, likely a string of infections.

She's actually been much improved today - especially later on in the day - was giving her motillium before all meals and feeds this morning, and as a result she kept everything down - the energy boost evidently helped and she was much brighter in herself this evening.

He said though that if she wasn't much improved within the week, or if the vomiting returns to come back again.

That said, it does look like she might favour the persistent cough that DD1 has - GP says perfectly possible she's the same, but impossible to say until she's over this virus, and in any case they wouldn't diagnose Asthma or Atopic so young - wait and see.

DD2 however was also examined - we've been seeing him about HER persistent cugh for a umber of weeks, following an Xray we had done in SA which showed a pneumonia which hadn't been diagnosed here. Antibiotics seemsed to partially clear that, but she's coughing again...

He said she definitely looks and sounds Asthmatic/Atopic - several signs other than the cough - very dry skin, always, dark circles under eyes even when otherwise well and well-rested. He's sending her for an X-ray to check the lungs are clear and the pneumonia gone, and has presecribed a steroid inhaler to try and shift the cough. We're to go back in 4-6 weeks.

Said the cat could well be a contributing factor, not the only cause, he reckons, but possibly worsening Asthmatic symptoms. I'll talk to my Mum about having him for a period and see what happens. He stayed with her before while we were moving house, for four months and was happy as larry (and quite spoilt).

Didn;t think it was milk allergy as the gastro symptoms only come and go and she didn;t have several other symptoms he would have looked for, apparently.

So it's progress, at least with DD1 - DD2 we'll have to wait and see... at least we've had a day with some food in and no vomiting. We'll take it a day at a time.

Thanks so much for all your support. I'll pop back and let you know how things go.

Hugs and gratitude,

db
xx