Any writers / book editors around?

[Starplay]

I write non-fiction, information books for kids. I’m almost always offered a flat fee for projects… but a new publisher has asked my hourly rate. It’s thrown me slighty - I haven’t worked as an in-house editor for a while and I’m not sure what’s considered a reasonable rate now. Don’t want to go in too high, don’t want to undersell myself.
Any thoughts?

That's a difficult one. Normally you're paid per 1000 words aren't you?

If you usually charge £X per project, then you can work out your effective hourly rate from previous projects, so I’d start there.

Alternatively you can quote them a flat fee if you prefer to do that - tell them what you would usually charge per project for the length/word count/complexity they’re describing.

In my experience it’s not that usual to pay per hour for a writer, much more common to pay per project. Pay per hour is more common for subsequent editorial work.

Not even that. I think it’s pretty commonplace for editors to decide on an arbitrary flat fee to make their budgets work (I’ve worked for several mainstream pub houses now). You either agree to the fee or you don’t … It can be incredibly difficult to predict how long a book will take to write. It’s not necessarily about word counts… Low word counts can be really tricky because every sentence has to work really hard. So an hourly rate is fairer for sure, but it’s hard to pitch it right.

Oof that's an odd one. I would try to find a comparable job you've done and tell them what your fee for that was?

As a ballpark, my editorial gut is saying no lower than £40 an hour. But you could ask them what their budget is/expectation of how long the project will take -and then work out if it is in line with what you usually make. Will you be on an earn out advance? If so, will it sell a lot? So many factors!

I flip and flop between what I prefer to be honest. Hourly rate sometimes feels more straightforward - as you say, often a project rate means you're getting towards the end (or even the middle!) and thinking 'I'm running on fumes here' because you've agreed to a job based on someone's budget rather than the time the job will take.

But hourly rate - as I always say, you're not paying for the 20 hours' work, you're paying for the 20 years' experience...

The only way to do it is to look back at a fairly paid project and divide fee/hours. Then bump it up a bit...

My favourite push-back to pay per word is 'do you think they charged 40p for "It's the real thing", dear client?'

I'm in a more commercial area of writing than you are though.

The Society of Authors has guidance on fees
https://www2.societyofauthors.org/advice/rates-fees/

This is also a useful guide
http://www.andrewbibby.com/reckoner.html

NUJ freelance suggest £280 per 1,000 words, or higher if lots of research needed.
CIEP development/substantial editing starts at £38+ per hour.

In my experience it’s rare to get the ‘recommended rates’ from trade publishers, but on the flip side you get very regular work if they like you. So you have to weigh it up.

I’m sure there’s some editors association that suggests a specific hourly rate as I remember someone on Fb quoted it, but I can’t remember what it is (mught even be American but I think it was English) have a google for editors associations.

'My favourite push-back to pay per word is 'do you think they charged 40p for "It's the real thing", dear client?' '

So true @LaviniasBigBloomers! It really bugs me when writing is reduced to a mere word count in terms of effort. I've spent hours perfecting a few sentences, when that's all that appears on a page...

Thanks for your feedback all... it is a tricky one.
Would be great if trade publishers took better note of the SOA recommended rates, but it's certainly not the case - in my experience, anyway.
The problem when you're starting with a new publisher is you don't know what they normally pay other freelancers and you don't know how quickly they're expecting you to churn out work. You want to impress on your first assignment but then you don't want to set yourself up with a rubbish deal.