Enid Blyton

[PBMA1980]

Anyone want to start an Enid Blyton thread?

We could talk about a variety of subjects all relating back to Blyton books, from the light (which character did you most want to be to which food sounded the tastiest) to the heavier (dissecting racism and name changes in Blyton books).

"I heard that, yes! 'For second Gollywog;s name, I took the SECOND part of the word....'

And how it was so funny that nobody could tell them apart.....

"Nobody censored Malcolm Saville, or Angela Brazil or Dorita Fairley Bruce or Lorna Hill or Willard Price or all the hundreds of other writers who had their time and faded away. They just didn't have the massive support from nostalgic parents to keep them going."

Parents must be nostalgic for a reason - they more prominently remember enjoying these books over the others you mention, and so figure their children will enjoy them too. The parents were children once, and lots of people here are arguing for the importance of the child's point of view.

PS I loved Malcom Saville! And seeker do you have the Muriel Denison "Susannah" series? Loved those (and still have them)!

I don't think EB is canonised (in the meaning of sanctified) because I think most people as they get older realise that the books aren't actually up to much. But they remember enjoying the stories and that makes them enduringly popular, and therefore part of the canon (in the 'establishment' sense).

As I said before, I feel very nostalgic about sugar sqndwiches made with white bread and loads of butter. And about eating a stick of raw rhubarb dipped in a huge cup of sugar. But I don't give them to my children!

ROFL, this argument keeps going in circles! I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I really don't think there any any special reasoning being applied to EB to continue to make them popular after other "better" authors have had their time and faded away. It really is as simple as the undisputable fact that children enjoyed and continue to enjoy them.

I still want to know if you have the Susannah series! I don't know anyone else who read those.

Willard Price is available and popular in my local library! Ds likes looking at the covers (he's 3).
I think part of it is when I was young, there was EB and really precious little else that was post-war for ages 4-8ish. And as my parents would generally agree to buy me a book at any fete or charity shop we went to, it generally resulted in me coming home with another EB book. Arthur Ransome, Just William, Jennings, Biggles, Willard Price, all the pony books didn't appeal for a few more years and books designed to be appropriate for young children didn't have enough words in.

Now there is at least more of a choice, while other good story books from my childhood have also survived - Paddington, the Wombles, Flat Stanley etc - though all are as sexist, classist and often as xenophobic as Blyton, but as there's only a few of each, they miss most of the opprobrium that gets landed on Blyton.

Lawrie (or Nick) says 'Oh Binks, you do look funny - like a not-quite-n*gger minstrel!' in MATT!

But yes, as you say, very good on anti-semitism (apart from Miranda's rich and ugly father, for which I always felt there was no need). My point is the Marlows are fox-hunting, pro-capital punishment private school landowners, yet I still think the series has huge merit and is worth preserving. EB doesn't and isn't, really although I am still not saying 'ban it'

As I said before, I feel very nostalgic about sugar sqndwiches made with white bread and loads of butter. And about eating a stick of raw rhubarb dipped in a huge cup of sugar. But I don't give them to my children!

But I would hope that you didn't stop them if they found it for themselves. (unless they were massively overdoing it). Very similar to EB-fine in moderation, if they find it themselves.
I was in a bookshop this morning and so picked up a Famous Five Book and opened it at random and was irritated by the first sentence 'Good morning Master George. I flicked a bit further and saw that Anne took to someone because they gave her a fairy doll. I had seen enough by that point. However it was about a tutor and I vaguely remembered he was a baddy and something to do with Uncle Quentin and his work and was an good easy read-the sentiments were so outdated to be taken seriously.
I remembered enjoying them as a DC, but they obviously didn't come under 'good book' because I got rid of them as I grew out of them whereas I kept my favourite books.

Interesting in Famous Five - Uncle Quentin is always on the verge of a breakthrough for some renewable energy source!

Go on, seeker, give your kids a sugar sandwich. You'll feel all warm and squuzzy for it.

My mother never gave me a sugar sandwich or the rhubarb and sugar, but I remember having both. It is a stage-you grow out of it naturally and I don't even think of it nostalgically-in fact I would pay not to eat them!

A bit like EB-3 sentences was enough today! But I don't regret having read them.

I have just eaten a sugar sandwich, on white bread, with real butter. Seriously. It was fucking divine.

Trouble is, now I feel the need to cycle round the countryside looking for some gypsy criminals to outwit, just as soon as I've asked the cook to pack me a picnic. Oh I say, rather!

With lashings of ginger beer!

< wonders whether to tell everyone that she has Spring Term- a Kingscote spin off- stashed away til the perfect time to read it- and decides not to>

I just asked DS(6) about Sooty in Five Go to Smuggler's Top. He said he doesnt know why they called him sooty but his hair was black and his eyes were like coal. The reference to race completely passed him by.

ElaineReese, how nice to meet a Marlow fan. I love those books, however dated they are. I don't even mind the foxhunting because it's so incredibly beautifully described in Peter's Room and it's actually really evenhanded, too - you get the fox's view and the hounds' view, and Nicola can't decide how it should end. IMHO Forest is the Jane Austen of children's lit, and I love Miranda's father with his unobtrusive kindness and tact. Think Forest herself was Jewish ethnically.. can't remember her real name but it wasn't Forest. I think Girls Gone By reprinted some of her books. I think they also did some Lorna Hill.

I live at Hendon, me .

I think her name was Rubinstein, possibly?

I'm ordering Spring Term too, but as a present. Not taking any bets on whether the spine will be unbroken when it's unwrapped, mind.

And yes - I am the most anti-fox hunting, anti-private school person I can imagine, but I still adore the Marlow books, and perhaps Peter's Room in particular. Although Mrs M selling the Last Ditch and then two terms later telling Nick they can't afford fees any more always seems a tad rum!

Could we turn this into a Marlow thread?

YES. We can. We must. Blyton haters seeking something Better, let us recommend Antonia Forest. ESPECIALLY Peter's Room, which is the most awesomely intelligent take on Emily Bronte. EVER. And End of Term, my favourite Christmas reading.

Yes, have just done a google - Patricia Rubinstein. Hm.

So what if PATRICK is the self-portrait? The only child (also like Miranda, though), the trad Catholic, living next door to the huge family, as Forest says she did?

I'm guessing the Last Ditch wouldn't cover more than a term or two of schoolfees. Truly, I always find Mrs M maddening - why doesn't she get a job? - but I also applaud AF for even bringing the schoolfees into it. In Blyton everyone is either exceedingly comfortable, or else on a full scholarship.

Now the crucial question, Elaine. Let's get to it. Giles, or Patrick?

Yes, I think in some ways AF was a bit Miranda and a bit Patrick. Also she was good at acting, I think - maybe a bit Lawrie, too?

I have no idea what a horse (even one as gorgeous as Chocbar!) costs now or did in 1967, but still - wouldn't you think if imminent financial chaos loomed, you'd a) be aware of it 5 months in advance and b) not buy a new horse? And she does say that Keith has said she is going to have out fees up 'again', so it's obviously something they're used to happening!

Do you know, I'm not mad keen (thank you AF) on either Giles or Patrick. Both are pretty pompous, and I certainly couldn't be doing with either mucking out endless horrible birds of prey or being a Navy wife!

The most compelling relationship I can think of to envy in the books, I think, is Miranda and Nick's - I think I'll opt for Miranda West as my BFF, please!

Back to EB!

I'm reading The Enchanted Wood to my 4 yr old DD at the moment and I have a question! We keep coming across the word 'queer' as in 'the queer folk in the Faraway tree'. The first time I read it out she asked 'what does queer mean?'

So I said 'well in this context it means strange' and moved on very quickly. Should I edit this word? I should, shouldn't I?

I would-'odd' or 'strange'.

You will most likely come across gay too.

I hated the Famous Five - far too posh and smug!

I preferred the Secret Seven - nice grammar school kids!

No, queer means odd or strange and that meaning fed into the other in the late 19th/early 20th century - tell her what it means and possibly that some people now use it as a word for gay but it's not really a good one or alternatively, read her something decent.