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Children's books

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Original poster

Enid Blyton

150 replies

PBMA1980 · 01/11/2011 11:07

Anyone want to start an Enid Blyton thread?

We could talk about a variety of subjects all relating back to Blyton books, from the light (which character did you most want to be to which food sounded the tastiest) to the heavier (dissecting racism and name changes in Blyton books).

OP posts:

ElaineReese · 15/11/2011 17:57

I think you'd be hard pushed to argue that Blyton had the same literary merit as The Merchant of Venice though!

exoticfruits · 15/11/2011 18:42

I think it sad that parents try and spoil DCs reading by seeing it through adult eyes.
When I was a DC nothing was worse than some worthy adult preaching about what you should think. I read a very wide range of books. My aunt in particular had a whole shelf of stories about girls schools in 1930's. I realised they were dated, and some of the messages were very dubious, but I knew this, I didn't need an adult saying 'you don't want to read that.....' I did and the stories were good. Trust your DCs-they are just as deep thinking as adults and they can think for themselves.
Rather than making a huge fuss about EB, (making it highly desirable)provide lots of good DCs books too. It is always better to encourage the positive rather than emphasise the negative.

exoticfruits · 15/11/2011 18:46

I'd say Blyton and her awful writing is a price worth paying for liberty to browse and read...

Well said. If you promote reading for pleasure you are more likely to have a DC who loves it for life (they do move on from EB!) than someone who censors what they read for adult reasons.
My thinking is that if a book is in the childrens library it must be suitable and the best thing that you can do to encourage a child to read for pleasure is give them a library ticket and leave them to it. I loved my visits to the library and it would have been entirely spoilt by an adult looking them over and telling me what was suitable and what was unsuitable-according to them.

ElaineReese · 15/11/2011 18:52

Exotic, both my kids have read Blyton and decided they weren't that impressed - or that it has a certain uninentional comedic value.

But I would take the opportunity with them to discuss the books and why there's an issue with them, and I wouldn't/didn't let all the crap about wild gypsy girls and French girls with none of zees Eeengleesh sense of 'oneeuuuuur go unchallenged!

exoticfruits · 15/11/2011 19:00

You haven't got my DCs Elaine-I tried that and as I said I got, rather pityingly, 'it's only a story mum, you don't have to take it so seriously'-they refused to discuss it.
I loved EB , DS1 liked EB and DS2 AND DS3 never liked EB. They make up their own mind. I was quite pleased that they were not going to take mum prosing on.

exoticfruits · 15/11/2011 19:02

I did tell them what I thought-you can't tell someone else what to think. It just went completely over their heads as outdated rubbish anyway.

peeriebear · 15/11/2011 19:12

I lived and breathed the Famous Five stories as a child. I adored the escapism and adventure of another time- not once did I consider any of it to be teaching me dirty messages about class/sex/racism. I was a gifted reader and had all manner of books but I still loved the Famous Five the best (my favourite being Five go to Smugglers Top, in dusty old red hardback, with original 50s illustrations!) I still have them and have no problem letting my 10yo DD1 read them if she wants to. I hope she does, in fact!
It's only just occurred to me that they weren't actually famous though, were they! :)

Grockle · 15/11/2011 19:19

I loved the Faraway Tree series. DS (6) has been listening to the Famous Five audiobooks for a couple of years and LOVES them. Lots of her stories were based on places around where we live, which makes them a bit more special to DS.

Grockle · 15/11/2011 19:29

And as for the stories being about class and race, we talk about the issues raised and how they were written a long time ago when things were different. If I censored DS's reading then I'd have to rule out lots of other authors too. Much better imho to let him read a range of books and discuss them together.

peeriebear · 15/11/2011 21:17

I had to hastily abridge when reading Doctor Dolittle to DD1 a couple of years ago. Blimey it's racist! I had forgotten all about it. At one point Mrs Lion tells Mr lion to take his friends and "Work like n**rs !" to make amends to the Doctor.

seeker · 16/11/2011 05:49

I'm not saying they should be censored. I'm saying that people shouldn't actively encourage them, or buy whole sets and say things like " I can't wait for little Wilhemina to be old enough to read The Famous Five" or give sets to babies as christening presents.......they should just be allowed to quietly fade away, as I am sure they would without the level of adult intervention that keeps them going!

For the record, I own all the St Clares and Malory Towers books because I am girls's school story collector.Dd'sgodmother gave her all the Famous Five when she was a baby. Dd went went through a Naughtiest Girl phase when she was becoming an independent reader then tried her Famous Fives but I don,t think she finished one- she thought it was boring and didn't have enough horses in it. She then moved on to my collection of pony books.- where we definitely had to talk about class and attitudes to wealth, but at least we were spared the racism and sexism debates. Principally because there were no boys and no non white British characters to be seen!

nooka · 16/11/2011 06:53

I read a fair bit of EB when I was growing up because they were in the library and I was a total bookworm. But even as a kid I knew they were pretty crap. I have never given them to my children to read or suggested them because they are still pretty crap, plus now of course I am more sensitive to the racism/classism/sexism and there is just no way I'd be happy to have them in the house. If the children chose them from the library I wouldn't remove them, but I'd make it clear why I didn't like them. I doubt very much that either of them would want to read them though as they have pretty much grown out of them now.

I've read pretty much all the books my children read (mainly because I'm still a total bookworm) and when they were younger I did lots of quality control (mostly of horrible pink sparkly books with deeply dodgy messages), now I just give them lectures (poor kids ) but I make up for it by supplying them with lots of good books to read so they forgive me.

My main reason for avoiding crappy book is because there are lots and lots of fabulous books out there, so why waste reading time on rubbish?

exoticfruits · 16/11/2011 07:19

They were very actively discouraged for decades-they are still here seeker.You could say why are you exposing her to pony books? (I dare say because you had them, in the same way people keep EB). I read masses of pony books as a DC , despite never having been on a horse and never wanting to and I don't recall them being good literature and some of them were decidedly dodgy in views. I also read masses of ballet books.
I read masses of books full stop and luckily I didn't have some worthy, prosy adult telling me what I should think. I made my own mind up-which is the joy of reading. DCs are not as stupid as people seem to think.
How will a DC know it is a good book if they don't read the crappy to compare?Because mother tells them? I would rather they worked it out for themselves-they are then more likely to choose the good.

SoupDragon · 16/11/2011 07:29

Perhaps we should ban, say, Jane Austin books for perpetuating the myth that women have to sit about waiting for a man to come along s they can "marry well and have children.

Most people are capable of understanding that the books were written in a different era with different ideas and beliefs.

I devoured EB as a child and do you know what? I didn't grow up to be a frothing racist classist bully. Why? Because my parents brought me up with the right set of morals. It's not difficult, really.

exoticfruits · 16/11/2011 07:36

I think that you say it all SoupDragon. The reason my DS wouldn't listen to lectures is that they do as you do, not as you say. With their upbringing they were not going to be racist bullies-they take attitudes in from birth-they don't need the sledge hammer approach in lectures. They didn't think it relevant-as they said 'it is just a story........'

nooka · 16/11/2011 07:45

Well that's OK then. I don't read crappy sexist/racist/classist books either

Tortington · 16/11/2011 07:48

Enid blyton - feminist but raving racist, the Golly issue was actually part of a radio 4 programme the other day which essentially said 'it is of its time' everyone was a raving racist.

nostalgia would be fine if there weren't stupid people

perhaps they should be re-published and referred to as 'nigels' (R4 listeners may get that)

ElaineReese · 16/11/2011 07:58

I heard that, yes! 'For second Gollywog;s name, I took the SECOND part of the word....'

She so wasn't a feminist though!

exoticfruits · 16/11/2011 08:06

If there was a banned book I would do my best to get hold of a copy and read it-I don't see why DCs are different. If it hadn't been banned and drawn attention to in such a way then I doubt if I would bother. If I was a DC and my mother banned it I would certainly try and read it!

seeker · 16/11/2011 08:35

"I'm not saying they should be censored. I'm saying that people shouldn't actively encourage them, or buy whole sets and say things like " I can't wait for little Wilhemina to be old enough to read The Famous Five" or give sets to babies as christening presents.......they should just be allowed to quietly fade away, as I am sure they would without the level of adult intervention that keeps them going!"

Sorry to cut and paste myself(!) but I don't see how anyone who read that post could thinkbi was supporting censorship or banning so I'm assuming people must hqve missed it!

Hullygully · 16/11/2011 08:55

stealth censorship, Seeker.

seeker · 16/11/2011 09:23

No it isn't! Nobody censored Malcolm Saville, or Angela Brazil or Dorita Fairley Bruce or Lorna Hill or Willard Price or all the hundreds of other writers who had their time and faded away. They just didn't have the massive support from nostalgic parents to keep them going.

I would argue that all the ones I've named are better writers producing better books than EB too!

Hullygully · 16/11/2011 09:25

Ah, but you've shot yourself in the foot there. I read (and still have Saville), but my dc didn't like him at all. For some reason EB has enduring appeal.

ElaineReese · 16/11/2011 09:27

... and Antonia Forest, who uses the N word at least one and possibly twice in the canon is actively sought after and paid lots and lots of money for when people find it, because of her vivid characterisation and realistic dialogue.

I don't think EB should be banned and haven't said so - just not bloody sanctified either, cos basically she's crap!

seeker · 16/11/2011 10:06

Enduring appeal because bizarrely canonised.

Can't remember the N word in Antonia Forest, but she is actually quite good on anti-Semitism. And on religious toleration- or lack of it.

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