Who can I count on?

[BadFriendorNot]

NC for this as feeling pretty raw. For background, I'm currently single, child-free and mid 40s. I've been LC with my family for around 20 years due to abuse.

I've spent my entire life surrounding myself with 'chosen family', trying to be a loyal and dependable friend, someone they could always count on for emotional or practical support. However in recent months I've come to query even decades-long friends due to questionable behaviour. Some very recent examples:

• A friend who has relied on me heavily for more than a decade, but recently disappeared when I needed support for the very first time (I realise typing this I probably just need to accept this is not a reciprocal friendship)
• Yet another friend who has disappeared entirely due to being in a new relationship. I know this is understandable to a degree but she literally will not respond to texts now she has a BF. This makes me feel like her friends (me!) were just placeholders until she found another relationship
• A friend whose husband wanted to introduce me to his colleague. Friend said no as said colleague was more successful than her husband and she didn't want me to potentially have a richer husband than her. I know, this is legit bonkers, and this is someone I would have said was my absolute best friend. Apparently only if she feels she has more than me...
• A friend who cannot have children who is bad-mouthing a mutual (pregnant) friend to all who will listen and saying she will be a terrible mother. I know she is hurting but I cannot stress enough the rage this person seems to have towards the pregnant friend. Nothing she is saying is true BTW.
• A friend who is currently apoplectic that a mutual friend's business is doing brilliantly, and is researching the company in the hope of finding some issue she can report. I'm terrified to share that I'm in the process of starting a similar business

I know it's unavoidable that occasionally people let you down or are envious, but I find myself looking around and wondering who I can depend on. I see friends who are either not there when things are bad, or actively sabotaging people for whom things are going well. I've dropped friendships over the years that have been obviously toxic, but I find myself looking at even the small group I've maintained and realising I can't trust them. The only people I see others turn up for are partners, parents, kids, siblings etc.

For people in the same situation as me, does this resonate at all? Have I chosen bad friends? Have I been naive in my expectations of friendship? I just want kind supportive people around me who are supportive in the bad times and celebrate the good times - is that too much to ask?!

Same here. At 67 I now have just two genuine, reliable close friends.

I wouldn’t say this has anything to do with you being Childfree or no contact with your family. But for them to reasons it will hurt a lot more. I have had periods where I put a lot effort into friendships and I’ve usually always ended up disappointed or let down. I don’t have any expectations now. Still friends but I don’t expect anything don’t really count on anyone for huge things. I find it easier like this, I also only put in the amount of energy as they do to me back. I’ve lost some friends due to me not messaging, but I was sick of being the one that was making all the effort. I suggest you make new hobbies and try make new friends. That’s my only advice but you’re not alone feeling like that. I’m actually a lot happier now than I was when I was giving my energy out to people that didn’t do the same back.

This is tough, OP.

The older I get, the madder I realise most people are. I have 2 good friends whose judgement and principles are sound, and a many more who can be excellent company when they’re on good form but are very self-centred, selfish, and/or genuinely mentally unstable.

It’s said a lot on here, but when the shit hits the fan, the people who step up are the ones you’d never have thought - and the people you’d thought you could depend on often let you down.

I would move mountains for one friend of mine who was nothing more than a work acquaintance for years. But when I suffered a traumatic bereavement she showered me with exactly the love and care I needed, in a way nobody else in my life did. She came out of nowhere and swept me under her wing and restored my faith in the human condition.

So in short, you never know who you can depend on - but people can surprise you in good ways as well as bad.

Perhaps you're right. I had always thought in the back of my mind that not having a close family of origin, and not creating a new family was the issue. But actually most relationships end, and I wouldn't choose most of those relationships I see around me.

Is the answer really just to focus on myself? To keep any woes or accomplishments to myself, and limit friendships to surface level only? That just seems... bleak. But probably healthier than the friendships I've been surrounding myself with tbf.

@VoltaireMittyDream I know what you mean about being surprised by who supports you during bad times.

I've experienced the same, however I've found a lot of those people enjoy helping those who are down, but will happily shove you back down if you dare start to do well.

Nah, that’s no way to live, keeping your cards close to your chest all the time. You need a friend group refresh.

Are there any communities you could join, around hobbies or professional activities, where you could meet new people? Sometimes long friendships that were forged in the fire of uni etc get weird and stale and too intense.

My closest friends now are people I met through work, as we have more in common.

You seem to have surrounded yourself with some pretty toxic people who I wouldn't trust. Haven't you noticed their behaviour before?

I’m sorry, that sounds grim. There does seem to be a lot of envy / jealousy in your friendship circle, which is not something I recognise from my own experience. (Which makes me think that perhaps I’ve just been lucky to remain so stolidly mediocre in life 🤣).

@MiloMinderbinder925 @VoltaireMittyDream this is the thing, these are a range of friends, some old and new, not some toxic group I've held onto from uni or similar. My friendship circle has evolved over the years (my family mean I'm v attuned to toxic behaviour and distance myself when needed) but regardless I seem to find myself let down time and time again.

I try to remain open and receptive to new people but inevitably each of them end up displaying these behaviours.

They don't do this to their immediate family but only to me or their other friends.

I'm sick of making new friends only to be let down after a few years. Maybe I need to work on finding just one or two people who I can trust, but then the stakes feel even higher if they let me down too.

It's very common when you come from a dysfunctional background, to find yourself in toxic relationships. This is because of many reasons: high tolerance for inappropriate behaviour, inability to recognise inappropriate behaviour, inability to assert boundaries and people pleasing (fawning).

You may ignore red flags or not be able to spot them. A good idea is to mirror people's behaviour. It's also prudent to be cautious with new people and take a step back if they start pushing your boundaries.

People you can trust are kind and considerate, they give as well as take and you feel safe communicating with them.

Is it something you’re doing, OP? You mention more than once trying to be a friend who’s available for emotional support — might this be creating friendships where it’s mostly about the other person’s needs, while you’re the helper/listener/rescuer? I think these can be dangerously one-sided.

At 52 ,I realised I was always the one making the most effort in all friendships.
I haven't fallen out with them ,I just matched their energy back.
So we meet up a lot less now ,and I'm fine with that .
There was also a couple of incidents where I stuck up for a friend and it caused an issue,and I lost friend ,and the friend I stuck up for didn't reciprocate in a similar situation.
So that was upsetting,but again I matched the energy back and dropped any expectations of friends ,.
People are not loyal in my experience,they care only for themselves

@BadFriendorNot I just want to say I feel for you

If you search my username, you'll find a million posts on this so I won't repeat myself

Also, if you google anything about friendship crisis or friendship on the decline, you might be surprised what you find. This is a big problem.

There's always going to be some of us you think friendship is important and some of us who don't. But generally I think it's unlikely to be the fault of the people who are left feeling isolated. There are so many people who are now isolated.

In terms of the child free thing, I can't really imagine ever regretting being childfree. I'm familiar with the sense of panic that isolation can cause and I've certainly thought of irrational things. So maybe that's yours.

I don't know if we can judge by the amount of posts on here, but I don't know that having children automatically provides you with a community.

I realise you may have posted in this section to find kindred spirits though. It is always weird when you post about isolation and people turn up saying "well I have a DH and children and I feel the same". Not saying you can't be lonely in that situation but loneliness and isolation are kind of different.

Sorry ,I didn't realise this was for mumsnetters without children
I just posted about my experience
I definitely have many issues with friends,and having children hasn't really been any part of the problems or helped either .

I’m sorry you’re feeling like this - I totally get it. Some of these examples, I’m afraid the friends sound a bit toxic to me, so I personally wouldn’t want people like that in my life anyway. It’s hard when you give so much and then get nothing in return when you need it. I’ve given up trying to work people out x

im the same OP. I have lots of friends , some go back decades , but the problem is they live too far away to be of immediate help and have their own concerns ( both are recently bereaved). The other friends I’m making locally are what I’d call fair weather friends , we go out socially all the time but not who’d I’d feel comfortable to call in an emergency.
im liking to look of women only communities for old age with people on call but with your own accommodation. It’s not easy .

I don’t have any practical advice for you OP, but I wanted to let you know that you aren’t alone in this issue. My husband and I have found this with our friendship groups and his family - we’re not sure why our relationships always end up being so one sided with regards to effort and care. It really hurts when you don’t feel cared for, or that you don’t have folk to celebrate life events or milestones with either. I don’t think your friendship expectations are unreasonable - it just seems like it’s quite hard to find it these days!