Women =/= mother

DitheringBlidiot · 2023-12-17T19:28:23+00:00

I would consider myself a feminist. So when I see posts like this https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0Z2pycgBE7/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== I am often interested in what they have to say. But recently I have noticed more and more people using "women" or "woman" when they should be saying "mother". Her video suggests there are 3 groups: mothers, fathers, and families. Has anyone else noticed this? Maybe it's not a new thing at all, or maybe it's not a wider issue and I'm making a mountain out of a molehill. For those who don't want to watch the video: The caption says that women have been tricked and WFH aren't a gift to women. She then goes on to say that the only people it benefits is fathers and families, as the time saved by not having to commute and get ready in the morning is used doing household tasks so mothers end up doing more housework.

Original poster

DitheringBlidiot · 17/12/2023 19:29

Sorry this should be women =/= mother

Have asked MN to change. Kept going back to the video to check the caption and confused myself!

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musixa · 17/12/2023 19:44

The erasure of the childfree woman - how depressing. Also, the martyr narrative over women taking the lion's share of housework. Why? Unless in a coercive/abusive relationship, no one is forced to do housework.

LoobyDop · 17/12/2023 19:48

There has always been that strand of what I think of as Earth mother, biological-essentiallism in feminism- you see it quite a bit on the FWR board. I don’t mean GC feminism, it’s not that. It’s centred on the idea that motherhood is the most important role anyone can have, and that capitalism needs to adjust to centre it. Mary Harrington, with her offensive shit about women who take the pill being the first cyborgs, is an extreme example.

EmpressaurusOfCats · 17/12/2023 20:04

Yes, that’s annoying. WFH is brilliant for me, without kids, because I can go to the gym or the supermarket before work & be around for the cats during the day.

EmmaEmerald · 17/12/2023 20:11

Not new at all

These have been used interchangeably all my adult life - 30 years.

Drives me nuts. As soon as I began working, I learned that 99% of the time, anything described as a woman's problem is usually a parent problem.

I ignored feminism for years because it was mostly about parents.
I pay more attention now, as sadly other problems have it brought it more to the front of my mind (violence mostly).

But I always make a point of calling it out when I hear it.

greengirlgang · 17/12/2023 20:14

Working from home works for quite a lot of people - kids or no kids. WFH seems to work less for people that feel forced into it and that want to meet a team and be around people and I’ve heard more childfree young people complain about the WFH set up (as they still want things such as training, delegation, shadowing, socialising etc) whereas more experienced worker might “get on with it”.

I have always been a huge believer that mothers do have separate and unique issues - womanhood isn’t one big umbrella. Then again mothers are being more vocal about their struggles in the workplace and I say fair play to them. I’ve had good friends screwed over by workplaces just because they’ve come back for may leave and I do feel for them. I also know they don’t represent all women or all mothers.

but I can see where you are coming from OP.

Original poster

DitheringBlidiot · 17/12/2023 20:23

musixa · 17/12/2023 19:44

The erasure of the childfree woman - how depressing. Also, the martyr narrative over women taking the lion's share of housework. Why? Unless in a coercive/abusive relationship, no one is forced to do housework.

Yes that's what I think I find so jarring, the complete ignoring of the fact that childless/free women are still women.

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EmmaEmerald · 17/12/2023 20:25

Also, if these muppets are doing more domestics, who did it before?

these are the same women who complain they're expected to work and do all the chores when their partner does none. It's not systemic failure that you got with a useless guy.

fitzwilliamdarcy · 18/12/2023 00:42

Yes, I’ve experienced this. The best personal example is how many extra work groups have had to be established to deal with issues affecting women, because my workplace women’s group is only interested in issues that affect mothers.

The danger is that childless women get lumped in with men, and are assumed to have all of the privileges of men because they are not mothers. Whereas in reality we face the same discrimination in terms of our employability (because employers don’t know we’re childless/free) and in terms of it being assumed that we will take on mental load/domestic labour of other types.

Original poster

DitheringBlidiot · 18/12/2023 06:09

I don't understand her comment about doing more housework. There is a finite amount, generally. The only additional thing I can think of is that I create more washing up at home than I do at work. But if the house is messy and I go to work outside of the house then it's still there when I get home. Same goes for if I leave a tidy home, that's what you come back to.

Good point also about women without children being lumped in with men. I hadn't fully considered that. Luckily my job now is not like it, but in past jobs I've had holiday turned down over the fact that it runs into a half term and why would I even want half term off if I don't have children? None of their business.

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musixa · 18/12/2023 07:30

I don't understand her comment about doing more housework. There is a finite amount, generally.

I hope not to get shot for this, but sometimes I think it comes down to women having higher standards of housekeeping than men. Not all women, and not all men, but if there is a divide it tends to come down that way more often.

For example, if Jane wants the house vacuumed daily but her partner John doesn't see the need to do it more than once a week, John isn't going to care or notice if Jane 'goes on strike' from the daily vacuuming because he isn't doing his share of it; so either Jane does it or it doesn't get done.

musixa · 18/12/2023 07:32

employers don’t know we’re childless/free

I always slip it in discreetly during the 'tell me about yourself' interview opener!

Original poster

DitheringBlidiot · 18/12/2023 08:01

musixa · 18/12/2023 07:30

I don't understand her comment about doing more housework. There is a finite amount, generally.

I hope not to get shot for this, but sometimes I think it comes down to women having higher standards of housekeeping than men. Not all women, and not all men, but if there is a divide it tends to come down that way more often.

For example, if Jane wants the house vacuumed daily but her partner John doesn't see the need to do it more than once a week, John isn't going to care or notice if Jane 'goes on strike' from the daily vacuuming because he isn't doing his share of it; so either Jane does it or it doesn't get done.

But would that not happen whether Jane was wfh or the office?

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MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 18/12/2023 08:13

These have been used interchangeably all my adult life - 30 years

You see the same in the media - 'families' feeling this and 'families' will pay that when what is meant is households - but to the majority of the media families (mum, dad and kids) are the norm. The fact that there are millions of us in single households is ignored.

Whataretheodds · 18/12/2023 08:28

The account is a "mom" account and all her hashtags are "mom" related. She doesn't #women.

I think it's pretty obvious that the mindset of this account is she thinks of every woman as a mother or potential/future mother. I wouldn't take that as indicative of everyone's attitude.

Original poster

DitheringBlidiot · 18/12/2023 09:14

Whataretheodds · 18/12/2023 08:28

The account is a "mom" account and all her hashtags are "mom" related. She doesn't #women.

I think it's pretty obvious that the mindset of this account is she thinks of every woman as a mother or potential/future mother. I wouldn't take that as indicative of everyone's attitude.

No she doesn't #women but the caption across the bottom which is bigger than her username or hashtags says "women".

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Noideawhatisgoingon · 18/12/2023 15:12

I love the WFH situation, my husband works from home and I don’t. I love it because he doesn’t have a long commute anymore he does more cooking in the evenings because he is home first (and a much better cook than me), general house stuff and then we are getting more time together in the evenings.

The martyr syndrome is obviously an issue with many women but surely they must appreciate they have more time to spend doing things they love as well? Where is the extra housework coming from?!

Neitheronethingnortheother · 18/12/2023 15:17

musixa · 18/12/2023 07:32

employers don’t know we’re childless/free

I always slip it in discreetly during the 'tell me about yourself' interview opener!

That only helps if you are old enough

Otherwise employers are as likely to hear "hasn't had children yet therefore will go off on maternity leave at some point" as they are "don't have parental responsibilities"

Which is why childfree women are as likely to be discriminated against as women who are parents at the interview stage. Because the assumption is that we are either parents or pre-parents and at some point it will impact our working. And by the time we are old enough to not be affected by that most parents have older children so are also less affected and then we are just straight into older women being invisible in the workplace issues instead.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 18/12/2023 16:00

employers don’t know we’re childless/free

I always slip it in discreetly during the 'tell me about yourself' interview opener!

I've always taken that as an invitation to talk about how my work history is relevant to the job I'm applying for. I don't think I've ever mentioned the fact I don't have children in an interview.

fitzwilliamdarcy · 18/12/2023 16:39

Neitheronethingnortheother · 18/12/2023 15:17

That only helps if you are old enough

Otherwise employers are as likely to hear "hasn't had children yet therefore will go off on maternity leave at some point" as they are "don't have parental responsibilities"

Which is why childfree women are as likely to be discriminated against as women who are parents at the interview stage. Because the assumption is that we are either parents or pre-parents and at some point it will impact our working. And by the time we are old enough to not be affected by that most parents have older children so are also less affected and then we are just straight into older women being invisible in the workplace issues instead.

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Agree. And saying either “I don’t want children” or “I can’t have children” at any point in an interview would be awkward as fuck, let alone right at the beginning.

Weefreetiffany · 18/12/2023 16:48

Yes women are discriminated against based on our childbearing potential. That’s what feminism tries to change. Woman might as well mean mother until this issue is sorted. Don’t hold your breath though. We don’t like being defined by one biological mechanism but my gosh doesn’t the world hold it against us?