Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
MNers without children

This board is primarily for MNers without children - others are welcome to post but please be respectful

Original poster

Always second fiddle

60 replies

Sorrynotsore · 12/12/2023 16:03

Bit of a dramatic title but I wonder if anyone else feels like this.. (sorry it's long)

I have a sister and 2 nieces who I adore and see regularly. She's just separated from her husband. He was awful and at times abusive (emotionally and financially).

He's been a nightmare and very demanding through out their marriage. I've regularly felt my parents prioritise her, the kids and him. Even now they are separated I still feel he's calling the shots and she's trying so hard to make things ok for the kids she is kinda letting him.

What's caused me to post is I've supported her through the 2 years of separation and we are very close. But she and my mum want him to come to my parents for Christmas lunch as he'd be alone at Christmas. (fam out of the country) It will also mean they aren't splitting the day with the kids going to him for a bit of it. So I get it I do.

But I'm just having a bit of a what about me moment. And this really is the first time. Like why am I always last to be considered? So yeah it's easier for her and the kids and him. But what about the fact that if I go to my parents I have to have my Christmas with my sister's abusive husband. Or miss out on lunch with my family. My grandparent it old and I always worry it will be his last Christmas. I'm not sure how my parents overlook her husbands behaviour so easily either.

It's about this specific Christmas issue. But it's also about all the millions of concessions and compromises they make for the sibling with children. That juat are never considered for me. Does anyone else feel like this?

I don't have an amazing relationship with my parents and we are very different. I have anxiety and definitely felt very inconsidered growing up. So I'm definitely bringing all this to the table too.

I just feel like a bit of a breaking point in how much I give and never get back and I do feel my child free status comes into it.

OP posts:
Original poster
Sorrynotsore · 12/12/2023 18:07

That all got a lot! But I'm sorry I don't think Christmas is for children. Did you know you were on the childfree board
@SwooningCamille

OP posts:
Original poster
Sorrynotsore · 12/12/2023 18:10

But yes perhaps it's not that I'm second it's about doing whatever for the kids. It doesn't take away (& this it the childfree board) that is happening.

OP posts:
Reddog1 · 12/12/2023 18:50

I definitely don’t think that “Christmas is for children” but I do think that in general, your parents are correct to prioritise the interests of the children. I’d say that if it were Easter Sunday or August Bank Holiday too.

If they refuse to host him, the outcome could be disagreeable for the children. Your parents are playing nice for the sake of the smallest and most vulnerable family members. Rightly so.

Your beef with them, which I’m sure is justified, is a separate issue.

Neitheronethingnortheother · 12/12/2023 18:55

I understand the being put second. My sister has made it clear to my parents that if they annoy her she will withdraw contact with her son.

But I have no children. So every time they are in a mood, or want to moan etc etc I am the verbal punching bag. Because apparently if you don't have grandchildren to offer then it's worth risking me going no contact because I am not worth enough myself

I feel for you OP!

SwooningCamille · 12/12/2023 19:04

Sorrynotsore · 12/12/2023 18:07

That all got a lot! But I'm sorry I don't think Christmas is for children. Did you know you were on the childfree board
@SwooningCamille

No - I am sorry. I didn't notice! It just came up in 'active'. My apologies.

I do still think that your parents are (rightly) prioritising their grandchildren - but that obviously doesn't rule out there being other issues involved. Families are very complicated. I'm right at the bottom of the family heap despite having children, if it's any consolation! My sibling who has no children is right at the top...

lesdeluges · 12/12/2023 19:06

As the only child free sibling in a loving caring family, I get a bloody massive headache and attack of the absolute boredoms about one hour post Christmas Dinner. I play along with the fun as does my DP. We join in, we pretend we are having a ball, and enjoy the first hour, but then it all goes yuck, so get me out of here quick! All I want to do is go home and put my PJs on and relax.

So we are heading to Cadiz and Estepona next Monday for three weeks. I did a pre Christmas family gathering Sunday gone 2-5 pm. Great afternoon, great fun and a sunset clause, now off to longer daylight and a bit of (hopefully) bright skies and sunshine.

They can do what they like on Christmas Day, and I hope they enjoy it.

There are things we can do if we are not fully comfortable with situations. OP think about things for next year maybe? I honestly could not be in the same room as an abuser like your former BIL. He has some neck.

Flamingbow · 12/12/2023 19:12

If you did have children and were going over presumably they'd still invite him?

I do get it, my siblings generally get more 'attention' and prioritised at events like this but mainly because the wider family wanting to spend time with my nieces and nephews and i dont have any children. I have learnt over the years that it's important to advocate for yourself though, I did notice that a lot of the concessions and seeming favouritism was due to my siblings speaking up and being honest.

roarrfeckingroar · 12/12/2023 19:24

Because Christmas is for the kids and this is such an emotionally raw situation for them and your sister that really their feelings will be more affected

Original poster
Sorrynotsore · 12/12/2023 19:30

roarrfeckingroar · 12/12/2023 19:24

Because Christmas is for the kids and this is such an emotionally raw situation for them and your sister that really their feelings will be more affected

Who decided Christmas is for kids? Or do you mean you think this? There no memo drcreeing this.

OP posts:
Neitheronethingnortheother · 12/12/2023 19:41

Making children witness abuse is abuse in itself. So if Christmas really was all about the children, and all about their feelings then the last thing that should happen is forcing them into a situation where they may have to witness more abuse.

Instead the parents can spend Christmas apart and work out how to split custody like every other separated couple with children.

Giving in to an abusive man's demands is far more likely to ruin Christmas for the children. I had many Christmases ruins by my parents abusive marriage so I know the all day tension of waiting for the sniping and arguments and fights to break out.

So all of this "Christmas is for children, think of their feelings" is bullshit anyway.

floorprotector · 12/12/2023 19:48

This reply has been deleted

This is a previously banned troll so we've removed their posts.

theduchessofspork · 12/12/2023 19:58

I do get it.

Families are obviously focused on children, which can leave you on the periphery as a childless person.

I don’t think you can fundamentally alter this dynamic, but it gets better if you are upfront about what you need and want - people do just assume you will accommodate others unless you say so.

So in this guess I would be looking to limit the amount of time he is over for.

floorprotector · 12/12/2023 20:02

This reply has been deleted

This is a previously banned troll so we've removed their posts.

Original poster
Sorrynotsore · 12/12/2023 21:57

That's a shame it attracted a troll and derailed the thread a bit.

But thanks to people who did reply. It's a hard situation. But there's been some useful perspectives. Particularly around the choice for Christmas and if actually the thing with feeling second place are differing issues. And whether I'm reading it as lack of care for me because that's how I feel about loads of other things which have happened.

OP posts:
ValleyClouds · 12/12/2023 22:07

I'm child free and totally get where you are coming from OP, I can't post in detail now but I will tomorrow.

PauliesWalnuts · 13/12/2023 10:18

Christmas isn’t for kids!!! I’m a catholic - it’s for people like me! It’s a religious festival for Christians of all ages! Kids my arse…

TedMullins · 13/12/2023 10:43

I’m fairly appalled that your mum wants her daughter’s abuser there for Christmas but as others have said, you have a voice and a choice. You can speak up, and you can also do whatever you want at Christmas. Go on holiday, volunteer with the homeless, spend the day at home without seeing anyone. you don’t have to be part of this and you’re within your rights to say why.

XmasCrumble · 13/12/2023 15:17

Agree with everything @HundredMilesAnHour posted! OP you say your mum and sister 'want him to come for Xmas' - does this mean he hasn't actually been invited yet? Do you have an opportunity to say 'actually, I don't think he should' and open up a discussion about it? Might be helpful to hear how they justify it as, for me, if he's abused your sister he should be alone at Xmas as it's called dealing with the consequences of your actions!

I also get how you feel. I have no kids and although I come from a loving family I find I can't help but be bottom of the pile as there's always something going on with the kids. There have definitely been times I felt like I wasn't even there at family gatherings - I don't even want to be centre of attention but an acknowledgement of my existence would be nice!

I think if they do want him to come you could always have the morning with them and leave before he gets there - I know it's rubbish that you would have to change your Xmas plans but it would make quite a statement. Almost like they are choosing him over you. In your shoes I think I'd be a bit less available for support if that happened...

IGotItFromAgnes · 13/12/2023 15:21

roarrfeckingroar · 12/12/2023 19:24

Because Christmas is for the kids and this is such an emotionally raw situation for them and your sister that really their feelings will be more affected

Please quote the relevant law that says Christmas is for the kids.

Christmas is for whoever wants to celebrate it.

WickDittington · 16/12/2023 18:22

I hear you @Sorrynotsore On the one hand, it’s understandable, but on the other it hurts a bit. And situations like this always (for me at least) bring up childhood traumas and dynamics. I’m the eldest DC of 6 and always felt replaced. I suspect this is in part why I’m single and childless ….

But I try to tell myself to get over myself. I know I’ll enjoy the day even if I’m rarely considered.

However, your sister and parents’ idea to invite her abusive exH is not reasonable and I think you could say how uncomfortable you’ll feel. I’d be tempted not to attend, frankly. You’re as much a member of your family as your sister is, and you shouldn’t have to put up with an abusive man for Christmas.

JenniferBooth · 17/12/2023 14:32

Reddog1 · 12/12/2023 18:50

I definitely don’t think that “Christmas is for children” but I do think that in general, your parents are correct to prioritise the interests of the children. I’d say that if it were Easter Sunday or August Bank Holiday too.

If they refuse to host him, the outcome could be disagreeable for the children. Your parents are playing nice for the sake of the smallest and most vulnerable family members. Rightly so.

Your beef with them, which I’m sure is justified, is a separate issue.

And who do you think will be expected to provide care for OPs parents when they get older. The one with kids or the one without.

JenniferBooth · 17/12/2023 14:40

Wow Better cancel all those carol concerts held in nursing homes then Just tell the residents that Christmas is just for kids so nothing for you FFS!

Noideawhatisgoingon · 18/12/2023 08:39

Totally hear you about being ‘Second Fiddle’ @Sorrynotsore it’s really rubbish.

I’ve realised how far down the pecking order too when I was telling a friend about it all the other day.

This year in an attempt to get organised so I’m not sitting around and waiting for the prodigal son (who forgets our parents birthdays / Father’s Day / Mother’s Day (he has children so it’s not like he won’t know ) to decide what’s happening and trying to make my parents less stressed about what they are doing for Christmas, I asked my parents if they would like to spend Christmas Day with me and my husband.

Apparently they will come over for the day on Christmas Day but if they get asked over to my brother’s, they’ll go there instead. But he won’t tell them (because he never does) if they’re invited until probably the day before Christmas Eve.

So I’m expected to just sit around and wait to see if they get a better offer whilst hearing about how stressed they are that they don’t know what’s happening.

Like I said, this is the very short version but I’m really quite fed up of everything revolving round him (this is not a new thing) and him ruling the roost with no consideration to our parents and them being hurt.

No advice but sending solidarity!

WickDittington · 18/12/2023 08:48

I think what you have to do is decide what YOU want to do. Celebrate Christmas with your husband. If others want to join you they are made very welcome.

But take control , live your best life - don’t do the pick me dance.

Noideawhatisgoingon · 18/12/2023 15:04

You know what @WickDittington , that’s really wise. And exactly what it is. It’s the pick me dance and I hadn’t even realised. I’m sorry you’ve had a rubbish time too.

I am desperately trying to keep everyone happy and failing miserably as I can’t change how he behaves and then I feel I am responsible for trying to keep my parents from getting stressed and upset. And I am constantly seeking their approval.

I do know I am not responsible for other people’s emotions. Going to have a big think about how I can put that in to practise without feeling guilty.