Glass ceilings

[finefinefinefine]

I was reading a thread about the speech in the Barbie movie. I have seen the film and liked the speech. However I didn't relate to it. I was wondering about this and if it is because I have never had kids.

I have never taken maternity leave, had to prioritise anything other than something that benefits me. I don't particularly feel any pressure to have it all or to look a certain way.

I haven't experienced a glass ceiling at all - in fact I am succeeding in an almost entirely male work place where the majority of work takes place in a country where woman are not equal.

I don't really know how this pieces together with not having kids. I feel like it might be part not needing to take any time off and part lack of social pressure. No real point to this and I am just rambling a bit - but interested to hear from others without children

There’s no way of telling whether the real reason you’ve missed out on opportunities is that they were worried that you’d immediately fuck off on mat leave. I have experienced and witnessed plenty of sexist and misogynist treatment in the workplace, so it wouldn’t surprise me.

I never had a job with a career path, so the question never arose.

I haven't seen the speech but...

I had a great career in finance in my 20s, very male dominated, felt the same as you.

In my late 20s I noticed that most of the really successful men had wives that facilitated their lives hugely and that they had semi detached relationships with their children. I also noticed that the really successful women were child free.

There were exceptions but if I ever asked a really successful woman how she "did it all" the answer was normally that they had a lot of family help. One woman was back in work after 10 days because others were circling her client list.

When I got engaged I felt a sudden change in attitude towards me. My colleagues assumed that I would have children and I felt they started sidelining me.

Even though I only has one DC and a SAHP husband, being a parent does limit how you can work which, in some environments put you at a disadvantage. I didn't want a job where o only saw my kid on the weekend so I left.

• back in work after 10 days maternity leave that should say.

I suppose one problem is that you can never know if you missed out on past career opportunities because someone assumed you might be going to take maternity leave in the future, or that (if the interviewer didn't know you) you had children and, as a woman, would be the primary carer at the expense of dedicating yourself to your job. Rightly, it's illegal to ask those questions in an interview, but that doesn't stop people making assumptions.

Having said that, I didn't relate to anything in the Barbie speech and found it mildly annoying that it assumed all women were or would be mothers.

I think it is universally acknowledged that the "glass ceiling" applies far more to mothers than to women in general

I don't relate to the whole speech, but you really don't relate to any of it? You've never felt pressure to step up as a manager but not be seen as 'a bitch'? You've never felt that another woman was nasty to you or started competing with you because you were a similar level of attractive and she wanted the male attention? I've certainly seen women being called too thin, but also other women being criticised for being fat. There were not many dress sizes between these people. You've never had comments about how you'd 'better get on with' having kids, or how you'll change your mind when you meet the right man, or how you'll regret it when you're older? Yes that wasn't explicitly included in the speech, but I interpreted the speech as women can never be enough regardless. You might be the CEO but someone will look down on you because you don't have children. (I do not feel this way! To clarify)

Having said that, I didn't relate to anything in the Barbie speech and found it mildly annoying that it assumed all women were or would be mothers.

Exactly. It was just a load of cliched nonsense.

I found that my career really took off when I reached my early 40's and think it was because my organisation at the time finally realised that I wasn't going to go off on mat leave. In the last 7 years I've been promoted several times and now hold a Director position. I've worked damned hard to get here and definitely experienced discrimination along the way.

What I'm now finding particularly galling is a couple of my colleagues who start out when I did but both took more than one mat leave, complaining that it's unfair that I was promoted ahead of them. They chose to have year long mat leaves for 2 and 3 children respectively. I chose to not have children and build my career. So 🤷‍♀️

Honestly have never felt any pressure to be or look a certain way. I may have been oblivious to it

Very fortunately I have never had any comments about needing to get on with it etc.

For me the being child free/childless only happened in my early 40s as didn't try for a baby until then. Before that most people in my life would have known I would have liked it but hadn't met the right man I suppose

I am child free too have been giving this some thought.

I was raised to be a people pleaser. Looking back I now see my parents weren’t very ambitious for me. They mocked any ambitions I had and never gave me the confidence to push myself forward.

my mum in particular would always play helpless around men. We also had to do a lot of housework and homework wasn’t really a priority.

I think if I had grown up in a home where women were seen as equal I would have pushed for promotions sooner - would have been more confident. I am doing quite well now - but I know could have done it faster if I had more progressive parents. They would have pushed a boy when they held me back

I adored Barbie and have seen it twice. I did feel that the speech did let the film down a bit though. There were aspects to which I related (the being a boss but not a bitch as mentioned upthread is one) but all in all, it felt like a rehash of the type of emails which we all circulated 20 years ago ("what it means to be a woman") and I would have liked something a bit more updated and nuanced from GG.

That aside, I have felt the glass celing as a woman and I don't think it applies mainly to mothers. As another poster has said, I too felt immediately sidelined and disregarded as soon as I got engaged - it felt like I was displaying a shelf-life which no longer made me viable for positions of authority. That was in 2003. Weirdly, I've also had the same issue in reverse in more recent years - passed over for opportunities because another candidate has a family to support, or because the employer wants to be seen to be EDI-compliant. Full confirmation that, as a woman, you are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

I am in a senior role now but feel I have to work twice as hard as my male counterparts. And of course thse days I tend to be overlooked as just an old woman who is probably out of touch, and thats before I get onto the effects of menopause - which so far seem to be pretty tame for me compared to others I know - but definitely have an effect on my energy levels and ability to keep up with the pace, Then the fact that I'm having to juggle full-time and demanding work with increasingly intense, upsetting and time-consuming caring duties for eldery parents. Another issue which, in my experience, very few men have to deal with.

So yes, the glass ceiling is real. It feels like I never have and never will be able to compete with men on a fully equal footing in the workplace.