Explain to me a fair way to calculate pay for nanny who brings own child to work

[SE13Mummy]

This may be jumping the gun somewhat but the circumstances of the family we share a nanny with have changed drastically and they won't be able to use a nanny from September. Our current 'real' nanny has had to return to NZ due to visa complications and neither she nor us know if/when she might return (she is on unpaid leave at present).

We are in Lewisham (SE London) and will need childcare Monday-Wednesday, ideally term-time only for our 15-month-old. The adverts I've seen around, and replies I've had from Netmums are generally for nannies who'd like to bring their own pre-schooler/baby to work with them.

I'm quite happy with this in theory as we're set up for a nannyshare so have a double buggy, extra Handysitt etc. and recognise that my child will benefit from having another child around during the day (there is a gap of almost 5 years between DC1 and DC2) but I'm not sure of the cost implications. Is it reasonable to expect that a nanny who brings their own child will be paid less than one who doesn't?

In my mind I'm wondering if the fancy calculation* that our nannyshare family did so we could work out the costs per family based on the proportion of time each child spent with the nanny is a fair way of looking at things?

*fancy calculation was something along the lines of: 10 hour day is divided into 20 x 30min blocks. Child 1 is with nanny for all 20 blocks, child 2 for only 8 blocks etc. etc. and these were then used to calculate percentage of the day and cost as it wasn't a straightforward 50/50 split as my DC1 is at school and DC1 of the nannyshare family went to pre-school for 3 hours each day.

I don't want to be unreasonable about pay and end up missing out on the perfect nanny but I'd like to find a fair starting point for negotiating pay.

There's no hard and fast rule for a nanny bringing her own child - some will expect no reduction in salary, some will be happy with up to a 40% reduction. I'd say a 20-25% reduction on the going rate is pretty typical.

I'm going back to work with my dd in a couple of months and not getting a pay cut but if I was going to a new job then I would expect to have to drop my salary by about 20%. I wouldn't class it as a share though and wouldn't go less than 20% or there abouts.

It's not a share as such so there isn't mathematically explainable way to work it out but a reduction of about 20% is probably fair. Would be handy if there was an industry standard calculation!

Your only limitation as such is that the gross figure will need to remain above min. wage but that probay won't be a problem in your area!

Have you considered what will happen about paying for activities, kitty, food etc?

I would expect a reduction of a lot more than 20%. It is effectively a share between you and she which would normally get a 50/50 split. So, if you go 40/60 seems more than fair.

I'm interested in this as we may go down this route in the future. Why wouldn't a nanny class it as a share? The employer's DC wouldn't be getting sole attention from the nanny and would be sharing the time 50:50 with the nanny's child, so not sure why only 20% reduction should be expected (although appreciate needs to be at least above minimum wage).

Just interested for future reference, not trying to say I think it should be 50:50 BTW.

It's not a share as the nanny isn't an equal partner - the employer's child takes precedence and the nanny's child has to fit into the charge's routine, go to the activities the employer wants, only the employer's nursery duties are completed.

I don't think that's really a fair assessment. The employer's child will have to make sacrifices if nanny's child cannot do those activities. Say employer's child takes swimming. Nanny doesn't want to pay for her child to take swimming. So, employer's child gives it up because nanny's child not happy waiting around watching someone else swim.

And, I don't believe any human mother puts another child before her own in a moment of crisis. No way. If both kids were in the road, a car was comming and I could save one of them... it would be mine. I wouldn't stop to think about it. If I had time to stop and think about it... I would still save mine.

However, I do appreciate that there is one employer and one employee, which is why I suggested 40/60 rather than 50/50.

I agree that it's not a share because the employer ultimately controls the schedule, the activities and the relationship. Plus there's less hassle from the nanny's POV than in a share (4 parental opinions plus one's own to balance, 2 families taking holiday, the possibility the share might collapse, 2 houses and potentially 2 lots of nursery duties)!

But it does have certain elements of a share in that the children don't get sole attention, there are restrictions because of the number of children etc.

I reckon 20% less because that's what most people seem to offer. £8 instead of £10 or so. Also a share for a nanny tends to involve a salary increase (say £10 to £12) which is then split between the two, so it ends up costing £6. This way it might be £2 an hour more but you're still a sole employer and get to call the shots.

Garbled explanation. Sorry.

When I go back to my old job my child will have to fit in with the job and all activities the other children do whether she likes it or not. It's part of the job and i accept that so wouldn't consider it a share at all. Generally the other children do take precedence and my child will fit in with the needs of the job.

That is not to say of course that my bosses aren't accomodating my needs they are a lot but they wanted me to come back to work so they said they were happy to do that.

I think a nanny returning to the same job after maternity leave is different from one starting a new job with own child.

I do take the point that there is only one employer. But said child will be eating food and contributing to household wear and tear and there are costs involved.

Still think 20% is not enough of a reduction to take on nanny's child along with her/him.

The going rate for a nanny share in NW6 is £12 + tax and ni. It depends how many children you have if you've one each £6/hour is fine if you've two £8/hour. You're still covereing tax and NI.

I'd say 40/60 split too. Any nanny with her own child will limit activities, will have to share her time and will be saving a lot herself as no childcare costs.

20% for the reasons frakkit mentioned but i would expect her to bring her child's food and nappies.

Thanks for the responses. DD2 will be 15 months old and doesn't have any 'activities' per se unless one counts going to the park and feeding the ducks or popping into the free baby singing time at the library!

I hadn't really thought about paying for activities etc. because I wouldn't want my DD taken along to classes and would expect to cover the cost of playgroup attendance which is usually per family/group rather than per child. We've not operated a kitty for our current nanny as there hasn't been a need to - the children don't go to any paid-for activities and there is no driving involved as there is lots on locally.

In terms of food I'd be expecting the nanny to prepare/cook the meals for the children being cared for just as we do in the current nannyshare - we don't worry about how meals are taken where and would like to continue not worrying about that kind of thing. If a nanny wanted to use my DD's reuseable nappies for another child that's fine, so long as they are washed and my DD has sufficient!

It's interesting to see how the opinions vary on reductions.

How long ideally do you want your next nanny to stay? If he/she stays for say 3 years your DD will be 4 and will possibly have some activities. I would think longer term and think about how things will work in a year or two.

My kids has paid for activities from about the age of two (monkey music, tumble tots) at age 3 we were in ballet and tennis and swimming. Perhaps I'm a bit more focussed on activities than some. But, I think you find her signed up for something before too long... but maybe that's just me.

Strix, ideally I'll like a nanny to stay for the next 2 to 3 years but even longer term I doubt DD2 will be signed up for anything Monday-Wednesday....it's not something that we're very into! DD1 started gymnastics aged 3 but that was on my day off. As DH and I each work a 4-day-week if we did go down the activities route he or I could take her on our respective days off.

My nanny brings her own child, does 3 days a week. Is paid 20% less than I would pay a nanny witout her own child. Food is communal, but she pays for her daughter to do things like Jo Jingles etc.

I am a nanny who brings my son to work with me. Given the average wages in my area, I'm probably earning about 25-30% below, but this is also my first 'official' nanny position.
My employers cover food etc. I provided a buggy board and I play for playgroups etc as I'd be paying to take ds to similar groups anyway if I was a sahm. Any days out, I ask my employers to cover costs for their children, but wouldn't dream of asking them to pay anything towards my child. With regards to activities, I've actually made arrangements for someone else to take ds to his classes as I couldn't due to work commitments, and I've also made it clear to my employers that I'm happy to make alternative arrangements for ds if they would like me to take my charges to a class.
I'm in the lucky position that I have family I trust who can look after ds while I'm at work if necessary, I just prefer him to be with me.

Those who have suggested a 50/50 or 60/40 split need to take into consideration that a nanny with own child is still an employee and as such is entitled to minimum wage.

I can say though that it has been difficult on occasion to be objective. As a mother it's instinctive that you're own child comes first, but as a nanny you have to take into account all of the children in your care equally.

Something I was asked a lot at interviews is the issue of school/preschool. We've made the decision that ds wont be attending preschool, but if he was I would have to consider if I would be happy for him to attend the same school as my charges, or if it was feasible to send him elsewhere without it interfering with work.

I found that nannies with their own child weren't willing to take any less than 20% below the "going rate" of a regular nanny. We ended up in a share instead because it was much cheaper (and because we had found the perfect nanny and share family).

I understand that a nanny with child needs to make a living, but she is also saving massivly on her own childcare costs. I would only consider it if the discount were 30% or more.