childminder possible in breach of registration

[Nubbin]

Hi

I am due back at work in 2 weeks and had found a childminder I liked - local, nice etc. She was looking after her son (3) full time and doing a school pick up for a five year old. My dd is 6 months old and will be with her full time.

This morning she emailed to say that she has taken on 2 more full time girls (2 and 3). I think this puts her in breach of her Ofsted registration (she is registered as being allowed 4 children under 8 of which only 2 can be in the early years age group). Not sure what to do now - do I mention the Ofsted thing (in which case I imagine that she would probably dump my dd) - more than that would 4 under 5s in the care of one adult work?

Would love to know what other people would do - if anyone has that many kids and how it works? Just think that it does not seem very professional and that does not bode well???

Thanks

Floor space is a real issue - she has a one bedroom flat and uses 1 one room for childminding I would say it is about 10 ft square - given that dd lies down most of the time (she can't sit up unassisted yet) that doesn't leave a lot of room.

I have emailed to say I have some concerns about feeding/ sleeping arrangements - what activities will be organised during the day to keep everyone amused - whether they will be left alone at any point (e.g. when she goes to make lunch for the kids etc.) I knew going back to work would be hard but possibly I didn't realise how hard and how much you worry about eveything!

I have 3-4 under 3s every day, and it works out really well I have a variation in place (continuity of care). Toddlers are certainly not all rough. I have house rules and we have loads of fun.

Something that works really well with this age group is role play. We play with the dolls a lot, kissing them, being gentle and loving etc. This role play definitely helps in how the toddler then interact with a baby.

Good idea Nubbin flat sounds very small for that number of mindees, I am reg'd for 11 but use 9 rooms, even then some days are pretty full on with little people everywhere.

It might prompt her to think carefully about how she is going to manage practically with them all.

I'm an employment lawyer so not much use to you! I can recommend but they will all be city lawyers which is v expensive - if it something simple you are better going with local rather than paying the premium.

Glad to hear there are positive experiences of the age mix. Her cousins are certainly not gentle - their version of hugging seems more like wrestling...

That does sound small, yes. And I am a big one for a separate sleep area. Will she use her own bedroom for this then? Is it registered for use?

All these questions, plus what activities she will be doing with them etc. you need to ask her.

Ta yep need a commercial one, last quote was £15K

I haven't had time to read all the answers but has the CM said that she's having the two mindees at the same time as the others - maybe they aren't full time, maybe one comes for mornings and the other comes for afternoons?? Or one comes Mon-Wed the other Thurs-Fri etc?

OP, why don't you just ask her? No one here really knows the terms of her registration. If you mistrust her now, and feel unable to ask her about this matter, how will you trust her to look after your child? It doesn't have to be in an accusatory way, just reply and say, "Great, have ofsted said its ok to have 4 under 3's?" or whatever.

Unfortunately not - they are siblings and will be there full time. You have to register parts of your home for use? So much I don't know.... I am worried about bringing it up apart form in a general concern about the space way as I can't afford to lose her this close to going back to work!

atworknotworking - I don't have the private message facilty - if you message me can I reply? If it is a simple matter 15k seems v high - at the least it is worth getting other quotes - an initial consultation and fee quote should be free - I am based in London and my firm would not be appropriate but I can recommend Dawsons (I have names but don't want to post them here)

Thanks Geraldine - sometimes the simple suggestions are the ones you can't see when you are stressed about everything!

Ah well if they're siblings maybe she has got a variation?

ps - I kind of needed to know if I had a genuine concern before I bring it up - I don't want to be amazingly neurotic first time mum...

Yes Ofsted agree or can stipulate which areas can be registered. As a general rule of thumb inspectors look at the requirements for space that day nursery regulations give, so a baby (under 12mths) should have 3.5m2 of space, older children 2.5m2. Parts of the building that are amenity areas arn't included ie: utility rooms etc.

No I can't CAT you, but if you have the time my email is sticky fingers at talk talk dot net (without the gaps with an @ and a .)thanks.

its ok, its scary placing your trust in someone like that...but honestly just ask. Even tell her you dont want to sound neurotic and that you know she is a professional, but can she just put your mind at rest. If she's a professional she will be able to give you an answer straight away and wont really mind you asking. If shes all legal and above board, youll feel fine, if not you'll know to go elsewhere. Either way you can stop worrying about it without knowing the facts! Good luck!

Thank you - v positive to know there are other mums out there with advice! Have emailed to say I have concerns about the space/ sleeping and eating arrangements/ what activities she will do each day to keep all 4/5 kids entertained and suggested that we meet up to chat and see how the kids interact.

My other half is a police officer and to apply for child care vouchers through the met she needs to provide a copy of her registration certificate so I have asked for that and will see if there is an issue.

Again any experiences of the mix of ages or whether childminders always abide by their registration restraints would be vvv useful.

Will be posting a lot more now about weaning/sleeping and all the other stuff I don't have experience of!

However in my other life I am a v good employment lawyer - so if I can be of use...

Hmm Nubbin - you probably could............Employment contracts??

Employment contracts are my bread and butter - what do you need?

Always handy to have an employment lawyer on here Nubbin. Issues often crop up in employment contracts - be they between parents and a nanny, or a childminder employing an assistant.

With regard to childminders always abiding by registration requirements... there will always be some who won't abide by it all the time. Some cases do get to be seen by the Care Standards Tribunal, those are of course the more major things. Try not to worry though, vast majority of childminders do abide by the requirements and even those who may not abide by them, may not abide by them accidentally - rather than on purpose - as it can be confusing at times. Some childminders are great with children but not very good at paperwork... so may not fully comply with requirements due to not having a bit of paper (such as a policy/procedure about something). Does that make them a bad childminder?

Trust your gut instincts.

I feel like I'm constantly writing to Ofsted to ask for variations and wouldn't ever look after a child without it, even for 5 mins! They probably get fed up with the amount of letters I send but I'm sticking to the rules no matter what!!

Now I know you're an employment lawyer but I don't suppose you have any recommendations for getting legal advice about malicious complaints? Sorry, you're probably wishing you'd never mentioned being a lawyer now! LOL

My and my husband's gut instinct is that the childminder will be great for dd and rather than a nursery it will be closer to the family enviroment we would wish for her if we didn't have to work/ could get up the courage to have a second!

Just worried about the numbers and how they will relate to each other in a small space!

Re the employment lawyer - always happy to help! Employment law is unfortunately a mine field.

BTW, I also look after 4 aged 3 and under every day as well as the older kids before/after school. Most of the time it's great, they are all so very close as they've been together for a long time (most of them). When ds2 was 10 weeks old, I started back with my mindees and the ages ranged from 10wks to 19 months and so they've grown up together (2 started as tiny babies). It would be more the space in the childminders home I'd be concerned about. I don't have a huge place at all but I do have a separate playroom, reasonable lounge space and bedrooms upstairs for napping. I think you were right to email and raise those concerns. How she responds will probably help you decide but of course you need to get to the bottom of her registration conditions first. I think the online system updates pretty much straight away so I'd expect to see her variation on there. But yes, find out if her own child is near starting school full time as that is possible.

Good luck

Re malicious complaints - entirely out of my field of expertise - I would suggest probably seeing someone local - lots of local firms run surgeries that are free for the first 30 minutes of advice - I can recommend one in south Loundon/ Surrey. I guess you are probably looking at an injunction which can be pricey unless the complaints/ behaviour has crossed a line into harassment which could be dealt with by a police visit. My husband has certainly dealt with online harassment before as a police matter.

Re looneytune - v good to hear that babies and toddlers can get on!

Ps also v impressed at the ten week! At six months I feel barely able to go back to work.

Thanks for that. I don't know who it is but feel it may be getting towards harrassment now as I had a complaint nearly a year ago and in January this person would have had confirmed that there was no further action. Now it's started again but Ofsted aren't taking it seriously and actually told me the accusations were that crazy I'd probably laugh when she told me - I did! But someone is out to get me for whatever reason and I feel it's very unfair. This time one of the accusations could have caused big problems with my marriage had it not been for the fact my dh had been working as my assistant and knew for a fact it couldn't be true!! I just feel this person should not be able to get away with continuing to make up these terrible stories!! Anyway, sorry, ranted on a bit there. Am going to phone my home insurance legal team first, just thought I'd see if you had any ideas Would be interested to know if the police would be interested in this though, knowing my luck probably not but you never know