Can someone advise on Nanny qualifications and OFSTED and things like that?

[WhatFreshHellIsThis]

I placed an ad for a Nanny share on gumtree recently and have been contacted by someone and wondered if someone could advise me.

She sounds like a lovely girl, she has an NVQ2 in Childcare and Early Years Education and is currently temping for a childcare agency.

I'm assuming this is not full nanny qualification? At the moment I would only want her to work for me one morning a week and I would be in the house working, so she wouldn't have sole charge, is this enough in terms of qualifications to do this kind of work? And does she need to be OFSTED registered? I don't really know what OFSTED registration does or doesn't do?

Also, what would I pay her?

And if we liked her a lot, would she need to do anything in terms of qualifications/registration if she was to take sole charge of the boys? I'm assuming she needs to be OfSTED registered if we wanted to use childcare vouchers, right?

Can you tell I've never had a nanny before.....?

NVQ2 is usually an assistant level qualification, such as a Nursery Assistant.
See CACHE Level 2 NVQ in Children's Care, Learning and Development as an example.

There are no requirements for a nanny to have any qualifications at all... so having NVQ2 is better than having none.

Ask about how they gained the qualification. NVQs are usually partly Workplace Observation and partly Portfolio based. So the qualification will probably have been obtained whilst working (or as a volunteer) within some kind of childcare setting.

Ofsted registration is not compulsory for nannies. However it is required in England if you wish to part pay using Childcare Vouchers or Tax Credits.

Pay must be at least National Minimum Wage.
Have a look at other jobs in your area to get a feel for local job market. For a sole charge nanny it can vary from £6 gross an hour to over £14 gross an hour. There are many factors to consider... such as experience, local market conditions, level of responsibility etc.

HMRC:PAYE contains information about taking on a new employee.
Best bit of advice... agree a GROSS salary, not NET - as you will be doing payroll based on a Gross salary. If you agree a Net salary, then you take the hit for all tax and NI if the tax rates change (taxation rates often change at the Budget).

nannynick you are wonderful!

she seems to have 10 months experience working in a nursery, and about 7 months experience just labelled 'childminding', but she isn't OFSTED registered or anything and I doubt it was in her own home, so it was probably more like babysitting, I'm guessing.

I'm going to meet her on Tuesday as we need someone to help out for this one morning a week asap, but the proper nanny share we need is for September,so I guess we'll see how it goes!

Nursery is different to working as a nanny... there are other threads on here about that. Many nannies do start off in nurseries, so don't let that put you off it can be very useful - though someone in nursery does have support from other staff and tea breaks which a nanny does not get.

Personally I would not apply for a job where I didn't have some idea of how much I would be paid. As she has, ask her what she expects the salary to be.

Yes, when she says Childminding she may mean more like babysitting. Which is fine, as that is Sole Charge care. Ask to speak with a couple of parents who have used her for babysitting.

Will it be more than one morning a week from September? If so, make sure she is aware of what the days are likely to be, so that it still fits around any other work she may be doing.

Go with gut feelings... see how she interacts with your child/children (make the excuse of going to make a cup of tea... then take your time doing so, to see how she gets on with your child/children).

Yes, the boys are currently in a nursery so I can see it's a very different kettle of fish. After all, in a nursery there's a very structured day to follow, whereas being at home with them requires much more initiative!

I guess I'm thinking of two separate jobs - there's the one morning a week which is under my supervision, and then from September it's picking up my eldest from school and the baby from nursery, bringing them home and making their tea, which is where we were hoping to share a nanny with another family, but no luck finding one so far.

So I don't know if she would be suitable for that job, but she might be good for the morning and then we could see how it works out? Does that sound like a sensible plan, assuming we like her/the children like her/we have a good gut feeling?

Am off to bed now but thank you for advice!

Some message threads that may (or may not, only you can tell) be useful to read:

How much to pay Nanny
Interviewing Nanny - What to Ask
Nanny Shares - How do you split things
Interviewing Nannies
Nanny Interview Questions

I guess I'm thinking of two separate jobs - there's the one morning a week which is under my supervision, and then from September it's picking up my eldest from school and the baby from nursery, bringing them home and making their tea, which is where we were hoping to share a nanny with another family, but no luck finding one so far.

I don't get why baby would be going to nursery... the advantage of having a nanny is that they will do some things around the home, not having to get children up in the morning, having them around to collect ill children from school.

It does not sound that great a job, so not that appealing to many nannies. Just looks like a bit of after-school care. May appeal to some, though not many.

I think you need to consider what childcare you need now and say in 3 years time. Consider what happens in school holidays and other days the school is closed (staff training days).

I think her level of qualifiacations and experience are fine for the initial non-sole charge job. And you may find that this position serves as a very good on-the-job training into a full nanny position.

I thin a lot of nannies will apply for a position which does not stae offered salary. In fact I know they will because I don't state the salary on offer when I post a job and get plenty of applicants. She is probably making not much more than minimum wage at a nursery, so that should give you a starting point on what to offer.

I agree with Nick that you might find it it makes more sense to just emply a nanny rather than a nursery, not least because it will bring a lot more nannies to the application process.

Incidentally, one does not have to have any formal qualifications (legally speaking) to be employed as a nanny. If he/she is registered with OFSTED then you can use childcare vouchers. But, I find that nannies will want you to 1- pay for their registration and 2- open yourself and your home to OSFTED inspections. Oh, and I have found that often nannies who are OFSTED registered want more money. So, it rather cancels out the whole benefit for you.

Thank you for useful input!

I can see what you mean nannynick about it not being really a nanny job in its current form. I think that's why I was thinking a nanny share more than anything. The other reason is that DS2 is very happy and settled at his nursery so at the moment our only childcare need is this one morning a week. However, when DS1 starts school we will need some sort of after school care, and with my job and DPs job becoming more and more demanding, we thought a nanny to bring them home or nearby might make a lot more sense than a childminder which would involve another place to pick up from!

Slightly tangled thinking, I know, but you might be able to see how we arrived at this situation.

I guess I'm thinking if I like this girl a lot and she trains on the job as you mention, Strix, that we would take the baby right out of nursery and she would have sole charge of him during the day and of picking up DS1 from school four days a week. (I don't work Friday afternoons) But I need to work out if we can afford it

An Ofsted registered nanny will be subject to a request for random inspection but unlike childminders the employer can refuse to allow this. Most nannies who get registered; Do so because the employer wants childcare credit.

I had already completed a great deal of training with the Pre-School Learning alliance but completed an ICP UNIT 1 qualification to register with SureStart and when registration was passed over to Ofsted I did anotherr updated childminding course to cover the common core skills and early years foundation stage.

I have always had a police check done for my employers 'my choice' and have also kept my first aid courses up to date.

As for all my courses; I am much prouder of my glowing references and the many happy well rounded children I've helped through there baby/childhood. I have grown up charges who still keep in touch.

In my 27 years working with children I have seen wonderful nannies who have no qualifications and highly trained ones who are useless and the other way round I hasten to add.

Go with your instinct and check work history/references and expect to pay a fair wage.

By the way the net wage thing can work against the nanny My tax went down once but it didn't affect me as I was on a net wage.

The employer can refuse access but the nanny herself will still be inspected.

Why was your ICP not sufficient for OfSTED, sunshine? It's listed as one of the few courses which definitively covers the common core, unlike the DCE/NVQ etc which are only made suitable for registration by some nifty wording.

OP you've has great advice, if this girl is happy to do the job as it stands then that's a good starting point. Agree a gross wage and remember to have a solid contract too.

You may find this girl, if you like and trust her, is a very affordable nanny option for you. I agree the September job doesn't sound that appealling and IMO most shares won't want to do a school and nursery run. If you took baby out if nursery and had a share that might be more viable.

Been doing the maths and I just don't think we can afford to take the baby out of nursery We just can't afford a nanny full time, so maybe we need to look at other options for after school care for DS1 like a childminder or after school club.

I figured if we're paying the nanny £8 an hour gross (roughly) for 4.5 x 8 hour days, that's £288 per week, right? Which is about £1250 per month. DS2's nursery fees are around £720 a month, so even if we factor in £15 a day after school care for him it's still quite a lot more to have a nanny. Or is my maths awry?

sorry, meant to say after school care for DS1, not for DS2

£8 gross per hour x 36 hours = £288 gross. Employers NI adds on, so giving around £311 per week. So cost to employer of around £1351 per month. This Calculator can help with calculating costs such as Employers NI.

So that is nearly twice the nursery fees and I suspect would be over twice once other costs are factored in such as nannies travel whilst on duty, heating/lighting/food, payroll admin, activities/supplies budget.

You should I feel look at all options which are available... such as after-school club, holiday club, breakfast club, childminders etc.

frakkit, I am aware that Ofsted will still inspect the nanny. Not a problem. I was merely pointing out that the employer does not haave to have the inspectors in their home! Quite right too! A private home is no place for inspectors. A nanny I know was inspected recently but only had to show her certificates were up to date. and answer a few questions.

When I took my ICP the common core skills and early years had not been introduced, this course has been going for a very long time. Ofstead put me in touch with my local council who paid for the Chip course. The Ofsted administrator I spoke to had not even heard of the ICP So I was not pleased to find I did a course which covered things I had allready covered on other courses. When people on this site are saying the ICP is enough.

I could only go with what I was told by Ofsted and Surrey County Council and I spoke to several advisors on the criterea of registration. Like everything introduced by the last government, Ofsted is over complicated. I did hwever! find the people I dealt with very helpful, in particular, a gentleman named Mark Forrest.

Thinking about it; It wasn't that long ago I took my ICP UNIT 1? registration hasn't been around that long. I was just told by everyone at Ofsted that it was'nt on the list and I would have to do the Chip course which only carried a certificate. The ICP is a qualification course. I was so fed up in the end at 'the right hand of Ofsted not seeming to know what the left hand was doing' that I just did the Bloody course I needed to get registered again for a job and it was taking forever. It was so much simpler with SureStart!

Not heard of the Chip course and I'm also in Surrey. Wondering if I need to do it. Is there any info about the course anywhere?

Ok I've googled... Childminding Introduction Programme (ChIP) Length 18 hours.

So is that now replacing Unit 1 ICP?

Is Ofsted saying that although as a nanny you have other qualifications, you still need to do ChIP? If so, is that in the registration information document anywhere?
Common Core is mentioned in CR4.2
In Annex F they say
"We will currently accept all qualifications on the Early Years and Playwork Qualifications Database as meeting this requirement. Applicants can check if any qualification they hold is on the database by checking online at
eypquals.cwdcouncil.org.uk/public/ or by ringing the Children?s Workforce
Development Council (CWDC) helpline on 0113 390 7743."

The ICP is the first unit of the Certificate in Childminding Practice, which is on the Level 3 list. So could be argued that Unit 1 does meet the common core requirement I would have thought.

As you say... "the right hand of Ofsted not seeming to know what the left hand was doing".

Remember that Ofsted can be complained to, that individual inspectors plus Ofsted National Business Unit CAN BE WRONG. So if you disagree with something an inspector or person on the phone or via e-mail is saying... show them the evidence for why you feel they are wrong and file a complaint against Ofsted under Incorrect Ofsted Procedures - as then it isn't a complaint about an individual but a complaint about The System.

Think I will stick with the courses I have done already (NNEB Diploma Nursery Nursing, Common Core Skills for Home Based Child Carers, Safeguarding Children) ... they haven't moaned about it yet, so I'll wait until they do.

I think (or at least it used to be) that the ICP was part if the ChIP. The ChIP appears to be specific to Surrey from my research, and is only required for those registering as childminders. It's an LEA course and therefore sod all to do with OFSTED.

The ICP was upgraded in, I think, 2006 to reflect changes in Safeguarding Children legislation but it will be replaced by the new Diploma anyway. OFSTED say it and the MNT course will still be valid when that comes in.

Everyone I've ever spoken to or corresponded with at OFSTED has said the ICP is fine and never mentioned a ChIP and I have a biiiiig file of correspondence

Maybe it is just Surrey who try to push the Chip Course and I was unlucky in my contact with Ofsted. The Person I was passed on to was supposed to be an expert on the requirements and he insisted he could find no mention of ICP even though I explained I had taken it at Farnham College as a requirement to register with SureStart. I didn't consider the Chip a great course for nannies because a lot of it was about running a childminding business and all the parts of it that I would consider relevant, I had covered either with My Pre-School Learning Alliance Courses or with the ICP and I hasten to add; These were much better courses.

Another nanny on the course was also annoyed and didn't find it relevant to nannies. I'm not interested in how to run a childminding business and I'd already covered safeguarding and every other aspect of childcare it dealt with.