Please tell me I'm not mad

[TooTiredtoGoogle]

My childminder told me out of the blue yesterday that DD is underweight and that I need to feed her more.
DD has just turned 3 and is 10kg. Childminder compared her to another mindee who is under 2 and told me that DD doesn't weigh half as much as him.

She says that if we spoonfed DD, we could get more calories into her.
I was quite upset about this and firmly told her that I thought she was fine, small but healthy - I'm under 5ft tall and weigh 6 stone. I also told her that I don't want DD to be spoonfed as I like her to be in control of what she eats and I also like to encourage her to be independent.
Despite this, childminder kept going on and saying that my DH was average size, so DD should be larger. She made me feel as if I was starving DD.

Childminder spoon feeds her other mindees (who are both around 2 years old - one is slightly older), and she was in surprised when I told her that I've let DD feed herself since the age of 8 months. I've always believed that DD isn't a fussy eater (in that she will try anything) because she has been allowed to get on with it herself.

I walked away thinking I was right and that perhaps I should terminate her contract. I've calmed down now and won't terminate her contract, but childminder has planted seeds of doubt in my mind. I will ask DD's nursery whether they think DD has a problem with food. In the meantime, I wouldn't mind some cyber thoughts on this, especially from childminders - is this the norm, saying all this to a Mum?

Hi
I think it is always upsetting when you are essentially told something that might suggest you haven't been doing the optimal thing for your child.
How is your relationship with the childminder? If it has been good till this conversation, then i think you have to think she is coming from a good place. If it was not great to begin with, then perhaps that is also colouring your view.
I am not a doctor and i know one has to adjust for height etc as she might have your genes. Just looking simplistically at growth charts - 10kg for a 3 yr old is below the 5th centile - whilst this in itself may not be cause for concern, perhaps this is where your CM is coming from.

www.keepkidshealthy.com/growthcharts/girlstwo.html

keep an open mind even if you are a bit hurt by this. CMs/Nannies/Nurseries are there to try and help look after our children - it couldn't have been easy for her to say it to you.

oh and for what it's worth, i wouldn't spoon feed a 3 year old.

I think she is nuts. Spoon feeding a 3 yr old? Good luck with that. My just turned 2 year old would go insane if I tried to spoon feed him. If you are small, it is likely that she will be too and provided she is healthy and full of energy then there is no problem. If in doubt, ask you health visitor.

You are right and she is wrong. A 3 year old should be feeding themselves. And what a ridiculous idea that your CM is comparing one mindee to another. I was forever being told all sorts of ridiculous things about how I was doing it all wrong when dc's were babies (mostly by hv's). I let them feed themselves from well before 12 months. It's messy (probably why CM doesn't like it), but how else are they going to improve their eating skills. Both my dc's were born right at the 50th percentile for height and weight and then ds went way down for height and dd became so long that she was off the chart and hv kept telling me that I should do something about it (not quite sure if she was expecting me to put dd in the dryer to shrink her...). Both were the fattest babies ever and then as soon as they started walking the fat came off and they are now super skinny (very healthily and well fed) kids of 7 and 9. I wouldn't normally be concerned by your CM expressing concern, except that it sounds like it comes on the tail of her complaining about having to let your dd feed herself.

Your CM is bonkers. Nothing wrong with a healthy skinny kid. DD (7) is on the short and skinny side. She eats well, but not a lot. She's happy, not a problem.

I wish I was on the short and skinny side!

oh dear

yes of course any CM with concerns should raise them with parents, but to tell you so clumsily is AWFUL. Ofsted requires us CMs to raise concerns as and when they occur, so in a way she is fulfilling her responsibilites, but to suggest spoonfeeding and to keep going on about it, well, that's not on. She should have shut up.

So you can say yes I see, thank you for your input and then ignore.

Oh, and I encourage self feeding in all the children in my care (all of them put their yoghurt pots on their heads, why?! lol) because independence is a key part of development.

Do you have any other concerns?

Thanks for all your responses.
I just needed to feel that I'm right for thinking that DD is fine, despite not being on a centile ... or whatever. I remember when she was a baby and was on smallest centile, the doctor told me that I wasn't on a centile and was perfectly healthy, so why should my baby have to be on a centile to be healthy.

CM is fine, DD is only there for a few hours, twice a week after nursery, but I wouldn't put her with CM full time.

I do remember now, that when DD first started with her, she told me that DD had a wheat allergy because she had eczema, so I put her on a wheat free diet until she was tested at the hospital (she wasn't allergic to wheat, but egg, which we already knew). So ... maybe she is a bit health obsessed.

Thanks again for responses, it makes me feel less like a bad mummy

IME Ofsted are quite keen for childminders to interfere provide advice to parents. Which puts cms in a difficult position as we are expected to put a stop to anything potentially harmful to mindees and also respect parent's individual ways of parenting. Sometimes personal opinion gets in the way of differentiating between the two.

The 3 year olds i care for are around 15-17 kg but that doesn't mean your child's weight is cause for panic. There can be 11+ months development between 2 x 3 year olds for a start.

In the first instance, I would suggest you should visit your gp or health visitor for professional advice/reassurance. My son was referred to hospital because he slid under the average scales ... but it was eventually decided there were no problems as dh & I are quite small and no underlying issues were found.

On some tv program I saw they piled up a child's meal in a plastic bag and held it up against their tiny tummy. Which showed what the adults expected them to eat just wouldn't have fit in their tiny tummy! Really put it into perspective.

I think it would be really helpful if you were to visit your health visitor/gp and then schedule a chat with your cm and bring her some printed material to go over together. You could make a formal written agreement as to how you are both going to take this forward, in terms of quantities as well as what assistance your child needs/doesn't need and encouraging your child to make healthy choices and self-feed. (you could mention to your cm, that you are happy for her to show this written agreement to Ofsted as it shows very well how parents and carer are working well together and also involving other professionals. Ticks a lot of boxes as well as commits her to following your wishes)

I think your CM sounds is over-reacting and even a bit controlling to be honest, and what would be ringing alarm bells for me is the comment about 'getting more calories into her' alongside the wheat allergy theory she had where she got involved in managing your DDs diet on another level. I wouldn't even engage very much with this, I would just say, thank you we're satisfied her weight is fine and we would prefer you to carry on as normal, letting her eat what she wants and independently.

Oh my goodness, as a parent (and client!) I would not jump through all those hoops to educate my childminder on a job I expect her to already know how to do. I would simply tell her (politely) that my DD/DS is to be encouraged to feed him/herself.

Spoon feeding 3 year olds is not really a good idea. CM should know that. What is going to happen at age four when they are plunked in the school lunchroom and expected to get on with it themselves.

I would be more worried about the fact that she though all this spoon feeding was normal than I would about the way she approached me.

Your CM sounds a little bit strange - like she'd really rather be a doctor! How on earth would she know that your daughter's excema is linked to a wheat allergy?! And the weight thing also sounds like her issue.

My DS solely fed himself from 6 months, but I spoonfeed my mindees (10 and 11 months) because thats their parents' choice. I also (with their permission) give them fingerfoods to encourage independence. Parent's child = parents choice (within reason).

To Tired I feel a bit about this a couple of niggly things firstly the spoon feeding thing is pants, if your dc can eat independantly then thats great.

Secondly did your CM weigh your child herself?

If she did then I'm not sure this is right, I may be totally wrong but as CM's we are obliged to respect a childs human rights for eg we are not actively allowed to check for head lice. I could be totally wrong on this, maybe some other CM's may be able to clarify the weighing. Personally if I though a child was very underweight and / or unhealthy as a result I would discuss with parents in a sensitive way and suggest they ask HV or GP to weigh at next visit.

As well as this I feel she has breached confidentiality if she has given you details of another mindees weight, which she did when she compared them to you. I think this was unfair and unprofessional.

As an add on to the weighing thing, my DD's (10yr old) school is currently doing a healthy life thing and we had to sign permissions for her to get height measured and weight done which they were using in class to compare with each other. I don't have a problem with this but the school were right to ask for consent.

If I were in your shoes, I would go and see my HV or GP, then 'armed with the facts' as it were, and she raises the issue again, you can tell her prehaps 'Ive been to see the professionals!! HV & GP they say DH is fine, and they are perfectly happy with weight,height & how she feeds herself etc etc they have no cause for concern'

Its never easy when someone says something personal about our kids.

As a Childminder I have had to speak to parents about issues that were person and had to choose my words very carefully.

Are you happy with the Childminder apart from this issue? If yes, then continue to use her services.

Once you have taken her to see a HV then rest assure its ok.

As a parent you also can suggest that you would prefer if your daughter feeds herself. That sounds ok to me.

As far as I am concerned to force anybody to eat is pretty abusive and can only led to long-term issues with food. I would not like my CM or anybody to spoon feed a child who does not want this.

I think it is normal the CM shares her concerns with you. She probably has experience with many more kids than you and it is always appreciated that someone else who also knows your child speak about how they perceive your child's development. I really appreciate when a member of the nursery staff is not scared of telling me what is not going so well. So I would take my child to the GP who probably would take a blood test to check that there is no medical issues behind a smaller than average child.

Hi,

I am a newly registered childminder. I am reading through the posts.

From the posts I've read so far, some of them are and , and that would include the OP.

As someone who is about to be inspected on all this, I thought I would point out a few things. I am willing to be corrected!

1. "My childminder told me out of the blue yesterday that DD is underweight and that I need to feed her more."

Childminders are not allowed to make any diagnoses - medical diagnosis in particular. A childminder may voice their opinion/concern and recommend a referal.

So instead of saying, "your daughter is underweight and you need to feed her more."
The childminder should have said something like, "have you notice how little your daughter eats? I am a little concerned perhaps you could take your daughter to see her health visitor or GP, just to be on the safe side."

2. "Childminder compared her to another mindee who is under 2 and told me that DD doesn't weigh half as much as him."

I was told that it is extremely unprofessional and against the spirit and guidance of the EYFS for childminders to compare mindees. Comparing mindees goes against one of the four themes of the EYFS, that of the "unique child". A childminder is suppose to value children as "unique individuals" and "reflect on individual needs".

3. "She says that if we spoonfed DD, we could get more calories into her....... Childminder spoon feeds her other mindees (who are both around 2 years old - one is slightly older), and she was in surprised when I told her that I've let DD feed herself since the age of 8 months."

Again, this is totally inappropriate. According to the guidance of the EYFS, around 16-26 months self feeding should be established. (Page 101 Practice Guidance for the EYFS - Every Child Matters - Change for Children). I quote "Look, listen and note ways babies prefer to eat their food, such as grasping a spoon, using their fingers or holding a fork". With respect to "effective practice" it says, "treat mealtimes as an opportunity to help children to use fingers, spoon and cup to feed themselves."

Then there are other issues as other posts mentioned - breaches of confidentiality. The NCMA clearly states that a childminder is NOT to discuss with a parent about another child.

Giving out medical advice regarding allergies - again, against NCMA policies.

Maybe I'm being pedantic because I'm a new childminder, but that's my two pennies worth.

Hello
It's me, the OP again. I'm a bit livid and so just need to vent
Just picked DD up from childminders and she has again mentioned DD's weight, out of the blue.
I told her it was great that she cared about DD and voiced her concerns to me, but we'd been to the doctor's who said Dd was healthy, and that I'd spoken to workers at DD's nursery who said she ate more than the average child.
But, childmnder went on at me for 20 minutes - outside her home and in front of DD.
In the end, I caved in and asked childminder what she'd like me to do seeing as other child care professionals and health professionals had told me that DD was okay.
She told me that I should take her to see a dietician. When I told her that DD had seen a dietician a year ago and they said to put DD on full fat everything, she said that DD needed to see a dietician now.

She also told me that all babies need to be of a standard weight and that's why the centiles exist. I disagreed and said babies, children and adults come in all shapes and sizes. I'm not wrong, am I?

Anyway, I don't think it would be unreasonable for me to terminate her contract would it?

No you're not wrong. I'm a nanny who studied child and adolescent nutrition as part of her degree - not that that makes me any kind of expert but I don't agree with this childminder.
Children do come in all shapes and sizes and some need more food than others. FOrcing a child to eat or refusing children food and telling them they are greedy won't do them any good in the long term.
Having cared for children who have been spoon fed up until starting school, force fed, or refused food due to the adult carers food issues rather than theirs I think your approach sounds the healthiest. I think you are in the right and if a doctor, dietician and the nursery think your DD is fine as well as yourself then I would give this lady notice.
Giving advice is all very well but surely the advice has to be sought. If I'm concerned about a child I try to raise it as a discussion with the parents rather than leap in with the 'I think...' Advice is also just somebody elses opinion. It's up to you if you place any value on it

She's a lunatic and obviously doesn't even understand centiles. The aim isn't to get all kids on the 50th centile. Centiles represent the usual distribution of weight and height in a sample of one hundred children. Therefore for every child on the 50th centile, there will be one child on the 3rd i.e. it's within the NORMAL range! Someone has to be there.

You have no cause for concern. My dd is similar (just below the 3rd centile) and is still being monitored but she has a history of other problems. Without that history her weight would never have been a concern for the paeds. I'm also quite little like you.

She's obviously not paying any attention to what you (and the HVs) are saying and so I would kick her into touch...purely for being annoying! Would she be so worried about a kid on the 99th centile? You can bet your @rse she wouldn't!

I feel that I have to add something here from the perspectives of a parent and a CM. I currently care for 2 children who are only two months apart age wise. The elder of the two carries more weight than the younger of the two. Does this make one over weight or the other under weight? No of course not both are at their correct weight ranges based on gender and height etc. One of then feeds them selves and the other is sppon fed. Again this doesnat make one any "better" than the other. As other people have pointed out all children are unique. As adults we dont all weigh the same or are the same height so there is no reason why our children should be.
From a perspective of a mum Ive had some babies bigger than others. My DD1 was 7lb 1oz born at 36wks. At 4 months old my health visitor reffered us to a paediatrician who told that that it was lovely to see a baby who was healthy and all in proportion even if she had gone off of the top centile for her height and weight. She is now 12 (almost) 5'6" tall and has size 8 feet. Should I have with held foot so that she "fitted" onto the 50th centile? On the other extreme she has a freind at football who is the same age but only about 4'8". Her mum is tiny as well and again all in proportion. I think that your CM has serious weight issues, she has (in her own abrupt way) pointed out her concerns, you as a parent have sought advice and explined this to your CM. She needs to accept this and sort herself out. Im currently doing my NVQ and Btec in childcare learning and development and part of that address the ranges of developement and growth in children of that age, maybe she needs some re-education. Good job she never looked after my DS1 he was 11lb14ozborn and over 2ft long. he is still the tallest in his class and prpbably the heaviest, he takes a size3/4 shoe and has never been on a centile chart. I wonder what she would have made of him.
I personally wouldn`t want her caring for my children knowng that she com[pares them in such a way, how else does she compare. I think you and your daughter would be much happier else where.

Thanks for all your comments and support.

I am definitely going to terminate the contract with CM. Don't want to create a scene, so will probably tell her that I'm easing off work over the summer, so won;t need her.
Though she's very nice and I'm sure she means well by pointing out that my DD is on the thin side, I do feel that she is too unprofessional for my liking. If she really felt there was a genuine problem with my DD, then I'd have preferred her to have made an appointment with me, when DD wasn't around, to discuss the matter.
I just don't want to be hounded by her at pick-up time, after a hard day's work. I felt bullied by her insistence and I'm not paying someone to do that to me.

I also hate the way she always compares my DD to her much older DS who does have very serious health problems: 'he was thin and had underlying health issues, so my DD must be the same. He had eczema and was allergic to wheat, so my DD must be the same'.

Anyway, thanks again for everyone;s comments.
It has made me feel less bonkers and that CM is in fact the one who;s a bit neurotic about health issues.

I'm having problems with my childminder too. It's the way they make you out to be a bad parent because you do things differently from them. I chose a cm because i thought it meant she'd have a slightly relaxed routine and get trips out but still with a routine in place for sleeping etc, instead she acts like I'm insane when she says she's heading out at 11.30 for a picnic at a park that's 30 minutes away (bearing in mind that the supposed sleep time is 12.30-2.30 latest), so instead my DD slept 11.15-11.30 and then 1.45-3 - she was woken as cm had to pick up other child. Ok so thats not a biggy, but whats really bugging me is:

with this hot weather i provide UV clothing and sun tan lotion (for sensitive skin). My dd has sensitive skin and even the one i provide iritates her skin so I only put it on 10 minutes before going out and then regularly when in the sun, and she's nto once been burned, not even a slight tan! My cm says i should put a "base coat" on her before she arrives. I explain that I've not done so as by the time i've dropped her off it would be over an hour at absolutely minimum before she goes in the sun at all. And since i apply hourly when in the sun, that's absolutely pointless.

She went on to say i was a bad mother becaus ei dont put on a base coat, I actually asked my doctor about it because i got so worried about it and he said that there's no such thing as a base coat with the sun lotions as with clothes and normal absorption it wont last for more than 1 1/2 hours at most. He also wne ton to say that many studies have shown that if you use too much lotion for too long a time you can get vitamin d issues.

i just dont know what to do now, my DD lets me put it on her but she cries when its "stingy".
any thoughts?

OMG! I'm a childminder but I think my MN name would definitely suit your childminder better!!! Honestly, she's barking mad imo!! I have several toddlers atm and they vary in size. One is on the larger size for her age and another is on the smaller size but both are fine, we're all different. Both happened to start with me at 8 weeks old and were just the same back then so are following the right pattern. Me and mum did have concerns for the smaller one to start with but we discussed these concerns 'together', there was no bullying at all and if anything, I was a shoulder to cry on when mum was very down and worrying - I'd just try and reassure her. As for medical things, I've often said 'oh, I could be wrong but you may want to get X checked for Y, just to check as they are showing 'possible' signs of Y'. Honestly, who does this woman think she is! I'm pleased you are giving notice but hopefully she'll realise WHY!