Urgent! How much would you pay your nanny to look after your kids for a whole weekend (incl nights)???

[Avocadoes]

Just back from a weekend away. Our nanny looked after our girls for two nights and two days. She had previously said she would charge the hourly rate for this service. I actually thought it was pretty steep to charge £10 per he (her normal rate) for hours age was asleep but assumed it was normal so said ok. So 55 hours away this weekend amounted to £550! I thought she had donw pretty well out of that and gave her the huge wad of cash only for her to say it's normal to give a nanny 1.5x pay on Sundays! So she wants another £80.

I know we should have discussed exact details before but we didn't. Am I being taken for a ride or is it normal to pay £630 for a weekend of childcare?

Nikita what exactly are you disagreeing with?

We don't yet know what the contract says... it may have a clause in it which gives an amount for overtime hours. What happens then? As a solicitor you would I expect be suggesting to your client that they claim the amount as per the overtime hours on the contract - wouldn't you?

Nannynick this is what you said above:
How much is all the time, effort, worry you are spending on this topic worth?
On this occasion it may be best just to pay what she's asking but to then make sure that in future you do agree things in writing first and that you check the contract so if any clauses need to be added or amended that you do so at the next contract review (which would logically be in around 3 months time).

I disagree that "on this occasion it may be best to pay what she's asking"

If I were Avocadoes solicitor I would advise her against paying this unless there was a clause in the contract that covered this overnight situation. If I were advising the nanny, again, unless this overnight rate was agreed in writing I would advise her that she had no grounds on which to ask for it.

Obviously if the contract has a clause which covers an overnight rate then this will apply, but I suspect that is not the case, otherwise the OP would hardly be on here looking for advice on this issue.

Overight rate and overtime rates in contracts for Childminders are not one and the same thing. Overtime is generally agreed at time and a half, but overnight rate is generally agreed as a flat rate fee such as the £30 some of the posters on here referred to.

Nikita you could be very useful here as you may well have a vast knowledge of how the legal system would deal with a case of this type.

If it went to county count under the small claims procedure... would the court take the verbal agreement (I'm assuming the £550 was agreed verbally) or would they look at any written contract that may exist? Would the verbal agreement override that written contract?

How much time, effort, upset etc is likely in the event of it going to county court? If the OP paid the £550 and the nanny took her to county court... would it be worth while defending the case?

You are the professional here, please do tell us your views based on your experience of such cases.

The nanny is an Employee... not a Childminder. Please avoid using the term Childminder as that may confuse things.

So you are saying that Overtime and Overnight are different? At what point do they become different?

If the nanny was normally employed to work Friday daytime... then stayed on at work until Sunday afternoon/evening - where does Overtime start and finish, when does it become Overnight?

Nannynick I would be very suprised if this Nanny decides to take her employer to the Small Claims Court over the sum of £80. It simply will not be necessary. Either this situation is covered by the written contract or it is not. If it is, then the OP will likely pay it, if not, and it was not verbally agreed, (which appears to be the case) then the Nanny would be foolish to pursue this any further,and no judge would entertain such a claim if there is not verbal or written contract to support it.

If the nanny was normally employed to work Friday daytime... then stayed on at work until Sunday afternoon/evening - where does Overtime start and finish, when does it become Overnight?

The answer is to be found in the written or verbal contract between the parties, which we dont actually know in this case yet, until the OP checks the contract.

I suspect there is no overnight rate mentioned and probably no Sunday rate either. In that case either go by the contract or the verbal agreement.

But if there's both a written rate and the one verbally agreed which takes precedence?

OK I have now checked the contract. There is no mention of overtime or overnight rates. All it says is that her duties will include "Occassional weekend care, including overnight care, on dates agreed in advance (paid at an additional agreed rate)."

So I suppose the question is how we interpret the word "additional" in that sentance. I would argue it is additional to her monthly salary not additional to her hourly rate. And I would further argue that as we previously agreed her normal hourly rate when she looked after the girls for a Sat night then that was the agreed rate. Does that sound fair or not?

I would interpret 'additional' in the same way as you, ie additional to the standard salary.

I think if she said hourly rate then you were entitled to assume that she meant the usual hourly rate, not some variation of that that you had never heard of before.

It wont do much for your relationship with the nanny though. She does sound like she is trying it on a bit.

Avocadoes you are correct. In the absence of an explicitly written term regarding the amount of additional pay, there is an implied agreement on the overnight rate based on the previous overnight your nanny did for you. And even if this was the first time, the clause "paid at an additional agreed rate" does not confer the right to what the nanny is now asking for. You already agreed that the normal hourly rate would apply, even for the hours slept, which is an additional agreed rate in itself, so either way, your position is covered here.

That is my opinion as a professional. But my opinion as a mother and employer of a Nanny would be start looking for another Nanny, the attitude displayed by this blatant attempt to twist your arm is not the type of thing I would expect or want from someone who is looking after my children.

Avocadoes - I would go with what is written in the contract. Looks to me as though that occasional overnight care was to be expected and agree with Nikita that there is implied agreement on the overnight rate based on previous.

You now have a piece of paper which is signed by your nanny which sets out what the agreement is between you. Tell your nanny that you will pay the agreed amount of usual hourly rate for all the hours and show the contract if necessary. Ball is then in the nannies court - she may not be happy but she did sign the contract and didn't agree anything different in advance for this occasion, or for what exactly was meant as "additional agreed rate".

I do agree with Nikita with regard to the attitude being displayed by your nanny. I don't agree that it is necessary to look for another nanny if everything else is going well, but this may be the start of a slippery slope so it needs keeping a close eye on.

shit i will be your nanny! is she taking the piss or what? is she mary fucking poppins or something?

glad you found the contract and as nothing is written in it at what rate you pay then as nanny didnt say BEFORE you went away that she charged/wanted time and a half on a sunday,then she doesnt get it

next time you go away, I will come and be paid 10ph every hour and look after your dc

i dont think you need to look for a new nanny, just keep an eye on things

blonde i am looking after her dc, after all i am a dr!!!

Oh I did body combat once... it's hard. So I won't fight you for it!
BodyVive is easier... off to do that now, class at 11.30am

love bc. Do it 3 times a week. Very theraputic and also good self defence class

Thanks everyone. The awkward conversation looms but at least I am confident in my position.

Nikita - I appreciate why you wld question whether I want to continue with this nanny but for now I do. This incident does leave a bad taste in my mouth but that doesn't cancel out the fact that she is great with my kids and they love her. Friends who see the nanny with my kids at toddler groups etc always comment on how great she is with the kids. Also my girls don't settle easily with new people so it would be a huge upset to move them.

As for who gets to watch them next time. It'll have to be Blondes. Sorry DrOwenHunt but I can think of much better things to pay you £10 an hour for ( I presume you won't let Christina stand in our way).

'spits in hand and offers in agreement'

hope tomorrows chat goes well

if it doesn't point her to this thread and tell her us nannies (well me anyway) think she is a greedy cow and taking the piss and trying it on !!!

Yes I charge double for bank holiday if asked to work (never) but spoke about it upfront at interview and is in contact so both employer and employee know about it and agreed

I agree with what others have said she is cheeky to ask for hrly rate for all hrs worked although if you dont ask you dont get and she asked and you agreed which is fine but her asking for even more after an agreement is taking the piss!!

Most nannies have a 24hr rate they charge mine being same as blondes which is £200 unless have a baby that wakes at night and needs feeding, takes time to settle etc or have children that think 5am is a great time to get up then I do charge a little more but if children tend to sleep til 6.30/7am and go to bed before 9/10pm (obv I am thinking older children going to bed that late) then a 24hr fee is acceptable.

Maybe add an amendment to her contract that has a 24hr fee - that reflects her experience and qualifications - this can be anyway from £100-£200 as you have seen on here, and if she wants to add time/half for sundays I suppose thats something you would need to negotiate and if need be add it and then not use her on a sunday!

firstly to blonde i have a black belt in orgagami so trumps!!
and to the lady that appreciates that iam not the only female on the planet that thinks dr hunt is fit!!!

I think you have to pay the £240 but not the extra £80. I would also make it clear you don[t take kindly to strops - should she have one about this when she has had one about the holiday. I suspect someone else has mentioned time and a half to her and as you are paying her a ridiculous amount already she is trying her luck.

Avocadoes I do understand why you do not want to change your nanny at this point.

But I would have a discussion with her about the contract between you and what is understood by additional pay over weekends and so on so that she is very clear from now on what is agreed between you on these occasions.

Perhaps some amendments or additions to the contract might be necessary for the sake of clarity going forward.

If she is as good as you say, then let it go this time, but as Nannynick says, it is something to keep an eye on.

She wants how much???!!!!

Bloody hell. That's as much as I make for a 24/5.5 position.

She is seriously taking the michael.