ex-Nursey staff to childmind/nanny my two DCs?

[74slackbladder]

One of the carers from my son's nursery has recently left and has hinted that she would take on care of our two children when i go back to work (currently on mat leave)

It seems an appealing offer as she would probably come to our house and care for them here and my son already knows her well. She could also take him to pre-school which otherwise he would miss out on as wont be logisically viable once i return to work.

potentially she could be cheaper than two lots of nursery fees.

However i'm not sure what basis we should/could do this on ie is she a nanny or a childminder, where would we stand on insurance, tax, NI, holidays etc etc. She is obviously qualified so we have no worries on that score.

Anyone done anything like this before ? or have any advice?

She would work 4 days a week, from probably 7.45 - 18.00 (approx) caring for a 8/9month old baby and a 3.5 yr old who would be at pre-school in the mornings.

She would be a nanny and you would be her employer.

And as her employer you would pay her NI (employee's and employer's), tax and give her paid holidays, maternity leave, sick leave etc. If you add all the extra costs up (food and snacks for nanny and the kids, nappies, outings, heating, Ofsted registration, petrol...) you may well find that it's more expensive even than 2 nursery fees...

we would be looking at around £1200 for both nursery fees (approx), would you reckon our costs (incl all the extras you list, mickytoo) would come to more than that ?
excuse my ignorance, i have no idea what kind of money someoen would look to earn doing this

I thin a live-out nanny will probably cost you more. If you can give her a live-in position, 4 days per week would probably cost you less for an entry level nanny position, which is what she sounds like she would be.

Off the top of my head, something like £250 gross is probably more than she makes at the nursery. Add some groceries, bills, outings, payroll companyy, etc.... actually you are probably at the £1200 by now... But, you will never again have to to do the morning nursery run or pickup. And when you get home, they will be fed and bathed.

Oh oh... 4 days... make that £200 gross.

You need to work out what the average gross pay for a nanny is in your area (which is not easy in itself as most nanny pay is quoted in net) and then see if you can pay employer's NI on top of that, plus the extra costs above.

I am sure there are others who can do a better job of this but, if you work backwards, for a live out nanny:

1200 x 12 = 14400

To be the same as that with a nanny:

first you need to subtract costs of

£1500 employer NI
£1500 food, outings, petrol, Ofsted reg/insurance/first aid/payroll etc

(these are very rough figures)

= say 11400

So your actual pay to nanny would be 11400/52 weeks/40 hours = £5.5/hour gross

which is pretty low, even for someone who's had no sole charge experience, so I would have thought unlikely to be cheaper. But then it really depends on the market where you live. And you might reduce the costs with live ins, and nannyshares.

other thing to consider is that she may not be able to work for you without you/her paying money

did you/she sign anything in a contract saying cant work for parents for x months after they leave

Snap Blondes - was about to mention that. Often nurseries have some kind of clause in their contract either with staff or with parents to prevent poaching.

Let's say she was on £6net per hour, which is a reasonable salary for a live out qualified nanny.

Using this handy tool and a standard tax code, assuming 4 x 10 hour days you're paying £7.36 gross per hour which is £1,279 per month (plus £103 in employers NI). Then say £5 kitty money per day, so that's another £100 per month.

Over the course of the year so far we have:

£15,349 gross salary
£1,233 NI

= £16,582

£1,200 kitty money

= £17,782

Then you have yearly costs:

Remember that if she's not registered with OFSTED you won't be able to use childcare vouchers so add on another £100 for the registration (assuming she's got a suitable qualification, 12 hour paeds 1st aid and takes out insurance).

If you don't want to do the PAYE yourself you're shelling out for payroll administration - let's say £115 from PAYE for nannies

SO you're getting on for £19k before you even start thinking about insuring her on your car/paying mileage, the extra food and utilities costs of having another adult in the house all day...

BUT you don't have to get them up, dressed and out the house in the mornings, you won't have to worry about school runs when it comes to it, she'll be able to do children's cleaning and laundry, you won't have to worry about dinner/bathtime/picking up fractious little ones from nursery and you have care for them when they're sick.

Of course you can play with the figures on the tool I gave to see what you get. For example if you say you have £1200 just on childcare, no extras like petrol or payroll you can make it so £1100 is salary, giving an hourly net rate of £5.29, which would seem on the low side assuming she lived out.

Don't know where you're based though!

thanks all for your input. we are based in surrey, so not quite london prices but almost.

the biggest attraction is that we would avoid the drop offs and pick ups. however even with nursery fees (which could be cheaper than nanny by the sounds of things) i would only be clearing £200-300 per month after childcare & travel costs, so if the nanny arrangement ends up costing more than nursery, as attractive an arrangement as it seems, it just would not be viable on our current salaries.

In Surrey... inside the M25 is higher than outside the M25 for some reason. I work just outside the M25 and earn less than I would working a few miles further in towards London.
Suits me though, as I don't want to travel that far to work and I live in a surrey village outside of the M25.

If you are West Surrey, then a live-out 4 day a week nanny I feel will cost you in the region of £8-£12 gross per hour in terms of nannies salary. An first time nanny may be able to be got for a bit less, though one of the biggest problems I feel in the area is the cost of housing... the nanny has to live somewhere, so has to pay rent/mortgage, so needs an income that will do that.

I would say that a nanny will cost you more than nursery with 2 children. With 3 children the situation swings... but with 2 the nursery is going to be a bit cheaper.
£200-£300 a month clear isn't really enough in my view, as there are costs that could eat into that... such as nannies travel whilst on duty, taking children to activities, additional food, heating and lighting costs, employee admin costs, all sorts of things.

Back in December 2009 I tried doing a list of most of the costs associated with having a nanny... see it here. It is not an exclusive list but may give you some idea of how much a nanny may end up costing.

Nannies will care for children who have a mild illness... that is one benefit of a nanny over a nursery. Drop offs and pick ups are another. Nannies work different hours to nursery opening hours - handy if you need an early start and/or late finish.

Stretching yourself to be able to afford a nanny I don't feel is a good idea in the current financial situation the country is in... tax rates may change including VAT so costs of buying things may well go up over the next year, which would eat into your £200-£300.

If you are in West Surrey, then last time I looked at Nursery staff wages, £13000 a year was quite typical. As a nanny they could get a lot more than that, which is why nursery staff change to being nannies.
Nannying is different though... very lonely occupation, no breaks, no other staff to chat with (usually).

Why did the worker leave your son's nursery? They are now looking for a job... hmm, makes me wonder why they left their previous job, if they didn't have something lined up to go to.

she left i think because she didnt get on with manager and i think most of the staff dont but she still lives with her parents so cost of housing not an issue.