Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Flip

Original poster

Help!! What's the etiquette with references for existing childminder?

18 replies

noreallyitsnothing · 27/05/2010 14:54

Hi,
My daughter adores her childminder, who comes two days a week. The childminder has just asked me to write her a written reference, with a view to job searching. She is being vague about whether she will be able to still do the two days for my daughter once she gets a new job, saying only "you will be the first to know when i start my jobsearch" and "please can I have the reference as soon as possible"!
Obviously I can't and wouldn't want to stop her looking for another job, and I will happily be contactable by anyone who is interviewing her for a job that covers the remaining three days a week, but surely it's reasonable to refuse to write a written reference when she might well be applying for full-time jobs if that's all she can find? It would feel disloyal to my daughter who will really be upset if she stops working for us, as they've known each other since she was really tiny.
At the same time, I don't want to annoy her as she looks after my child!
I am also really dreading having to find someone else.
Argh - if anyone has any thoughts on how to deal with the situation, please let me know! Also, I see her every day at the school gates regardless of her looking after my daughter, so it would be good to keep things amicable, as they have been up til now. At least I think they've been amicable, maybe I need to check with her whether she has any grievances.
Thank you!!

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

StarExpat · 27/05/2010 15:01

I don't think you can refuse a reference. Does she need more income? If FT jobs are all she can find, maybe she will have to go for those to maximize her income if money is tight?

Also, you said she "comes 2 days a week", so is she a nanny, not a cm?

Maybe she just needs more hours?

DrSpechemin · 27/05/2010 15:04

Why don't you just say that you're happy to give your name and contact details and that any future employer can contact you when she has accepted a job offer.

Is she employed by you as a nanny or is she self employed as a childminder?

DrSpechemin · 27/05/2010 15:04

x-post

EleanorHandbasket · 27/05/2010 15:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

frakkit · 27/05/2010 15:07

If she comes to you she isn't a childminder.

Provide the reference saying the absolute basics - she has been working for you 2 days a week for x amount of time and you are happy to speak to anyone wanting a more detailed reference.

I would talk to her about it - would you consider a nanny-share type situation where she looks after another family's child and your DD? That way you needn't fear her leaving for another job!

RiverOfSleep · 27/05/2010 15:14

X looks after my daughter every Monday and Tuesday. For the past x years she has been a fantastic carer, providing love, security and a consistent routine, upon which my daughter has thrived. My daughter loves her time with x and would be devastated if she could not go to her. I would recommend x to anyone looking for a loyal and dedicated carer.

Original poster

noreallyitsnothing · 27/05/2010 15:24

Thanks riverofsleep! Thanks to all for the posts.
She is a childminder, she comes to our house and doesn't do full days.
I guess I need to talk to her to try and persuade her to stay with me even if it means changing her hours/pay, and in the meantime put together a basic written reference for her.
I have always said to her that I'm happy to have my details given out, and I've spoken to someone before and given a glowing reference over the phone.
I guess my real worry is that we don't have a formal contract and so no formal notice period. Previously we had a childminder who left with no notice at all, just a text the day before, and to whom my daughter was attached.
Now I'm starting to wonder whether it's something about me as an employer actually, although we always seem to get on well, and I pay £10 an hour cash in hand, plus any expenses ahead of time, and they seem to enjoy my daughter.

OP posts:

StarExpat · 27/05/2010 15:26

That's what happens without a contract. It's too risky. They can just dump you at a moment's notice. I thought this cm had been with your dd since she was tiny? Did you have 2 at once, then?

EleanorHandbasket · 27/05/2010 15:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Missus84 · 27/05/2010 15:29

If you don't have a contract and are paying cash in hand then sorry but you're not a good employer!

Are you in England? She is a nanny not a childminder, and you are legally responsible for having a contract and paying her tax and NI.

frakkit · 27/05/2010 15:35

She is not acting as a CM if she comes to your house. She is a nanny, and as other people have pointed out you should have been employing her with a formal contract and operating PAYE on her behalf. If you don't you're leaving yourself open to a call from HMRC, a whacking great fine and a large bill for backpayments.

Like as not she's realised that this arrangement isn't in her interests and is looking around for something else.

I really do think you need to talk to her but your first priority is a contract, which doesn't need to be complicated at all.

apotomak · 28/05/2010 00:28

Maybe it's more of a baysitting arrangement rather than proper childminding ... Childminders can babysit ... I know even NCMA insurance covers them while they babysit as long as they purchase their babytitting check list.
Or maybe she's not a registered childminder ... hence why you have no contract. Contract is there to protect your and her interests ...

Missus84 · 28/05/2010 00:30

A childminder wouldn't be able to care for a child two days a week in the child's own home though.

giraffesCANdriveAcar · 28/05/2010 05:18

You pay her cash in hand and have no contract? You have no leg to stand on then and she is right to look for a proper job where she is paying proper ni and tax contributions and where she has proper employment. A childminder looks after children in own house so she doesn't sound like a CM to me.

BradfordMum · 28/05/2010 07:17

Is she Ofsted registered?
Have you seen her certificate?

My thoughts are she's probably unregistered.
Whatever she us, she's not very professional, nor are you if you've no contract.

pippin26 · 28/05/2010 07:59

As everyone has said, if she is coming to your house for 2 days per week she is NOT childminding - she is nannying.
I have just checked all this out as a parent via our community minding network wanted care at their home. NCMA and OFsted are very clear that it would be considered nannying.

You sound like you have an illegal arrangement - paying cash in hand, sounds like she is unregistered, you are both defrauding the system (the system that many of us work extremely hard and pay into). No contracts - well I am sorry to say that neither of you have a leg to stand on.

I would rethink your childcare arrangements urgently and either get a proper childminder (who cares from their own home) or a nannying and become a proper employer paying tax and NI. Aren't your children worth having someone who is registered, trained, insured etc?

FabIsGoingToGetFit · 28/05/2010 08:11

You are going about this all wrong.

She is not working for you as a childminder.

You have no contract so she could leave with no notice and there is nothing you could do.

I am wondering if you are breaking the law by paying her cash in hand.

You need to stop being so desperate and realise there are other child care providers and your child will get attached to them too.

HarrietTheSpy · 28/05/2010 10:08

Have we scared OP off yet, poor duck?!

When we were interviewing for our first nanny I had several very experienced women come by, call themselves childminders and announce that they were 'self-employed' but of course prepared to work from my home. It happens all the time, and I can see how first time parents can get confused by it all. So - don't beat yourself up that this happened but you do have to put it right.

What you have is a nanny here, not a childminder as the others have said. It sounds like she just can't live off two day's work and needs extra hours. I think you must realise it's unreasonable for her not to find something else in addition! Are you prepared to offer her more time/money?

BUT you will be putting yourself at risk if you give her a reference which states the things she would need to get more work - like hours she works for you, payment, length of service without putting her on the books first and formalising the whole arrangement. This will be proof the job existed which she can show to anyone.

You are both in a lose-lose situation at things currently stand. If you really like her, give her a contract and explain to her she can't be self-employed. If she's not satisfied with that (which she may not be for whatever reason), then I think you need to walk away as it's really not in your interest long term. It's not in hers either, clearly, but the reality is she may well find someone who is happy with her 'terms' and will give her more hours.

Flip