self employed nanny

[MuffinToptheMule]

Hello all,

I know this question has come up quite a few times and the general consensus seems to be that nannies are employees and are not self employed like childminders are. I trawled through the archives and found a few posts where nannies have been self employed, this seems to be because they are temporary.

I have a friend who is looking for a nanny. The role would be 2 hours after school for 2 set days a week for the next 5 weeks and after that 2 full set days a week for 6 weeks.

The parents have only used nurseries in the past so they are unsure about the tax rules.

Would if be possible in this case to have the nanny as self employed because it is only for 11 weeks (is this counted as temporary)? Or would the nanny have to be employed because the terms of the job state the times she has to be there and she cannot choose this?

Thank you in advance.

anyone about?

I would do that as self employed, but not all nannies are registered for self employment, I am. But I doubt you would get someone to do it.

Sorry should have said, not enough hours involved thats why you may find it hard to get someone to do it.

So it can be legal to do this job as a self employed nanny.

What determines whether a nanny can be self employed?

Basically it's self-employed if you decide you can take on the contract, you decide when you work/don't work, you set your rate (which is all inclusive), you decide what you do when etc. Self-employed people can take on contracts that have specified hours - maternity nannies, for example.

So IMO it's temporary it could be done by a self-employed nanny.

Generally you should use the handy checklist from the HMRC or the ESI tool to help determine employment status.

Danthe4th, can you clarify this?

"but not all nannies are registered for self employment"

Why would a nanny need to be registered to be self employed when he/she does not need to be registered to be a nanny?

The tax office requires that you register as self-empoyed. Before/within3 months of starting SE work.

There are criteria that you have to meet to be self employed:-

1. You must work for at least 3 customers in a given period usually three months.
2. You must be able to set your own working hours.
3. You must be able place someone else of similar qualification in the role without consulting the customer.

This is current advice provided to my business from HMRC. I would see whilst the nanny could satisfy point one, she would not be able to substitute points 2 and 3 so could not be self employed.

Thanks for your replies. In terms of the definition from HMRC the majority of nannies would fall under the employed category.

I am still very confused though because some nannies are able to be self employed but I can't see what the exact rules are.

I need Nannynick.

Thanks for your reply Lizcat.

I was self employed until last week and I don't meet any of those requirements. I worked as an ABA tutor.

Lizcat - those rules don't actually hold for independent contractors. Maternity nannies, for example, often take bookings which are 3 months long, don't choose the hours they're on duty (they're agreed before the start of the contract) and can't send someone else in their place. They do, however, have to meet any financial penalty themselves for not fulfilling the contract.

Use the ESI tool to help - it really is very good.

The general rule for nannies is that you aren't SE unless you're a continuous temp, which means you set your own hours that you're happy to work within, you take on contracts for a length of time you're happy with, you work in locations you choose and you set your rate of pay. There are workarounds where you work for multiple families and they 'book' you for specified time-slots (kinda long term ad hoc nannying), but they're rare and you need to be very, very careful about the terms.

It's also perfectly possible to be employed in one job and SE in another at the same time.

bump for anymore responses.

In my industry there used to be many people, Locums, who were self employed. 18 months ago the HMRC had a crack down in our industry and unless the individual can meet all three requirements we have to employee them even if it is only for 2 weeks. Every business in the industry received notification of these details and information on the terrifying fines the employer will face if they incorrectly pay someone as self employed. The individual who is self employed is only liable for the tax.
Subsequently HMRC have hit several other similar industries and are working their way through everyone. Several of my friends who are contractors in the geology, quality assurance and motor industry have had to alter their contracts with clients to reflect these requirements.
On this basis I would advise anyone who was considering taking on anyone on a self employed basis to investigate this in great detail as the fines run to £1000s. We have had two spot checks in the last 18 months for this including a 2 day inspection. Fortunatly we have always taken our locums on as employees no matter how short a time they are with us.

Thanks very much for your reply. It all gets quite confusing. I was self employed just recently and didn't have any problems even though I didn't meet any of the 3 requirements.

I would really like to get a concrete answer about the specific situation I posted about, but it looks as if there may not be one.

There is not a concrete answer. In some ways I feel it would help if HMRC did issue some kind of concrete answer... but then you will have all sorts of moans. They do give guidance for other Occupations so maybe they could give guidance for those with Childcare In The Child's Own Home.

It seems to me to be all about the Big Picture of someone's work... so a Temp Nanny doing just lots of temp jobs, could be said to be providing a service. Whereas a nanny between jobs is not really the same, as they intend to have a permanent job and their past history is that of permanent jobs.

Thanks for your reply nannynick. My friend will have to wait and see what candidates come forward for the role and then assess it n a person to person basis.