Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Flip

1 2

Original poster

Help - made my Nanny Redundant

30 replies

kitkat1967 · 25/05/2010 19:11

Hi, I used to have an after-school nanny for my 2 children but when one moved to a different school and did not require care I decided that I no longer required a nanny. Unfortunately my nanny was on maternity leave at time so I left it a while before formally issuing her redundancy notice.
Now generally my mum or I pick up the remaining DC with occasional help from a teenage neighbour. As it happens my mum is now undergoing treatment for breast cancer so I am having more help then I expected but have not employed another nanny (it is just for a couple of weeks).
My problem is I now have had a formal letter from previous nanny saying she believes I have employed someone else and to reply in writing etc. as to why I terminated her contract so she would not have a job to return to when her maternity leave finished.
So my question is - she was employed as a nanny to my 2 children and now 1 is clearly not there. I do not need a nanny, I need occassional help with 1 DC but not on a regular basis but I do I have to justify this to her?
BTW she did not qualify for redundancy pay as she was not with us for 2 years but I did pay all the outstanding holiday etc.
I just don't want a long drawn out discussion about this as it is I want to move on.
Help

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Jaybird37 · 25/05/2010 19:18

I would probably post this in the legal thread.

I hate to say this, but employment law is very complicated and all to do with procedure and being seen to be fair.

I think you need proper legal advice. You may have legal expenses insurance on your house/ car / credit card policy without realising it. Alternatively, if you are a member of Which, their legal advice line is good.

So sorry about your Mum by the way; I hope she is OK and feeling better soon.

JennyPenny23 · 25/05/2010 19:23

Are you paying the teenage neighbour? I THINK (please don't take my word for it, its just what I have seen on here). that if there are any opening vacancies (so even if it is just a few hours here and there) they need to be offered the job or something?

Sorry I know thats not very helpful, but didn't want to read and run!

frakkit · 25/05/2010 19:29

I would take legal advice. The ML is a v complicating factor...

I thnk, but please check, that if you had reasonable belief at the time that she was no longer needed and no intention to re-employ a nanny then you're okay.

I also think there's a time limit on her bringing aclaim but the ML, as I said, complicates things.

bran · 25/05/2010 19:39

How long has it been between making the nanny redundant and your mother starting treatment? (I hope it goes well for her btw.) You couldn't have known that your mum would fall ill so the nanny was made redundant in the belief that her role was actually redundant.

Do you have any sort of contract of employment with the neighbouring teenager? If you do then you may be in a weak position, but if not I'm not sure what she could prove. How regular are the teenager's hours?

I think it would be worthwhile paying for an employment law specialist to send her a reply stating why she has no case. It may be that you are obliged to give her first refusal everytime you need a short-notice, casual baby-sitter but that doesn't seem logical to me.

Original poster

kitkat1967 · 25/05/2010 19:50

Thanks all, what a nightmare. Well the position has not existed since September last year but I didn't send the letter until Feb as wanted to make sure she had all her maternity pay etc.
No contract with anyone else - totally ad-hoc just when I can't get home from work in time and now as my mum can't drive for 3 or 4 weeks.

And thank you very much for your concern - my mum should be fine - this is very early treatment and hopefully just a blip .

BTW - I will not be every planning to use a nanny ever again as both DCs will soon be at a school with extended hours so the role will not be returning. I'm just having to wait for one of the places. The nanny does know all of this as we explained what our plans were.

OP posts:

annh · 25/05/2010 19:51

I don't know if there is any requirement for you to have offered her the position which now seems to be filled by the neighbouring teenager as it's not clear from your post exactly how often the teenager is helping you out, is she actually looking after your children in your home or just bringing them home from school, etc? If the role was every day after-school care for two children with maybe cooking dinner and homework supervision thrown in and the "position" now is that occasionally your neighbour picks up one child and delivers them home the roles could be argued to be sustantially different? However, even if it turns out that you should have offered the nanny the opportunity to take up that position, remember that you would be under no obligation to let her bring her child with her so bear that in mind in case this one runs.

Original poster

kitkat1967 · 25/05/2010 19:54

Hi annh,

It can be 2 evenings for a couple of hours and she brings dc home but I leave the food and she doesn't do homework etc like the nanny used to. Also nanny did holidays but DCs now go to club instead (which surely I allowed do?).

OP posts:

Original poster

kitkat1967 · 25/05/2010 19:57

sorry - meant to say 'surely I am allowed'.

I'm a tad stressed by it all.

OP posts:

mranchovy · 25/05/2010 20:15

If she is writing to you in this way it seems likely that she is planning to make a claim. However accurate the information that is available here or elsewhere on the internet, you will probably find that the next letter comes from her solicitor. The time for you to take legal advice is now, not then. If your home contents or other legal expenses policy doesn't cover you (or even if it does, for a second opinion), try ACAS.

annh · 25/05/2010 20:30

Hmm, it does sound like very different roles in so far as there is a role at all at the moment (rather than the teenager stepping into a temporary breach in your normal arrangements). However, MrAnchovy is quite right, better to pay for some initial legal advice now rather than attempt to sort it out with her amicably and mire yourself in some legal wrangle down the line. As a side issue, how does she know what your arrangements are at the moment? Does she see your dc with the neighbour or is someone feeding her (mis) information?

Original poster

kitkat1967 · 25/05/2010 20:35

Thanks for that - will look now.

Yes, I think someone is feeding mis-information - she could have just asked me though. Have done the reference etc.

I am confused though as job was to look after 2 DCs and DC1 is not even here. To be honest with just 1 I can work from home after pick up as there is no fighting!! Just on some days I have meetings.

OP posts:

Persnickety · 25/05/2010 20:44

I would pick up the phone and explain to her that you do not have a nanny. If she asks a lot of questions I wouldn't give much away. But, it might be that she has seen this girls at the gate and has lept to the conclusion that you have a new nanny. If the conversation doesn't go well, then pay for legal advice. But, I think there's a good chance that a friendly and personal phone call might go a long way to clearing the air.

Tell you mum has cancer and the teenager has just stepped in here and there while she is too unwell to do the school run. If old nanny is generally a decent person she will realise that taking you to tribunal is 1- not a nice thing to do and 2- a lost cause.

Original poster

kitkat1967 · 25/05/2010 22:19

Thanks Persnickety, I have sent a written reply as required but was thinking exactly the same thing - it would make sense to try and be mature and explain that this was not the plan but due to unforeseen circumstances. I do not want to go back to having a nanny so have nothing to hide - just didn't want the confrontation I guess.
I suppose I am struggling to see what she wants - surely not to do a few hours ad-hoc work at babysitting rates?? I had assumed she was after cash but maybe I'm being harsh.
I think this may be a job for tomorrow then .

OP posts:

Missus84 · 25/05/2010 22:26

She might have seen the neighbour at the school gates (or maybe been told about by another nanny at school?) and be quite hurt that you told her you were making her redundant then hired someone else. A phonecall from you giving her the reality of the situation might sort things out.

I'd be quite upset too if I'd gone on maternity leave, been made redundant and then someone told be they'd seen my ex-charge with his new nanny!

nannynick · 25/05/2010 23:31

I would wonder what she wants. She may be able to put in a claim for unfair dismissal... if she won that what would the outcome be - that she would be offered the couple of hour position?
This is where ACAS may be able to help as they may know what the outcome of an unfair dismissal case might be - based on past cases.

I would guess that the letter to you is to establish some Facts... such as confirmation that you do have someone caring for one of your children (or both of them) and if that care is similar to her previous role, or not.

Keep a copy of any correspondence you have with her... such as letters, e-mails.

nannynick · 25/05/2010 23:49

BAILII can be searched, to find some cases.
For example this a case involving a nanny (it looks rather a complex case).

When you gave your nanny their Redundancy Notice... did you also give them any money, such as Pay in Lieu of Notice?

Original poster

kitkat1967 · 26/05/2010 08:55

thanks nannynick. I gave lots of notice - in fact made the end date coincide with the end of paid maternity leave as I thought that would make things straightforward. I could have made her redundant sooner but my understanding was that she would still be due her SSMP and I didn't want to complicate things. I then paid outstanding holiday pay for the time she was on maternity leave until the employment was terminated.
I dropped round a formal response last night but will see if she wants to discuss further. I can't see how persuing this will help anyone - just cost everyone money I guess - so it would be best avoided.

OP posts:

Original poster

kitkat1967 · 26/05/2010 10:46

Ok, have taken legal advice (through work scheme) and been advised that the role does not exist anymore and the help I have now is fundimentally different. Temporary help I have whilst my mum is ill is also not a continuation of the previous nanny role.
So I have to 'sit tight' and wait to see if anything else happens. They didn't advise me to start talking to her informally now that she has sent her formal letter.

OP posts:

nannynick · 26/05/2010 10:51

I think you still owe Pay in Lieu of notice, as whilst on maternity leave she would be entitled to same rights as if she was at work. Assuming you didn't pay that when you paid the holiday pay. Check it with ACAS.

Original poster

kitkat1967 · 26/05/2010 10:59

Hi nannynick - it does not seem like I have anything outstanding to pay (I may have to be corected on that as I'm no expert but it was all calculated by the accountant at the time) and there is no indication that she thinks she is owed pay from that period. I suspect it's a bigger claim she's after.

Ho hum ..... I'm not good at just waiting.

OP posts:

nannynick · 26/05/2010 13:01

Waiting game ... Not fun.
Keep everything you have, put it in a box file or similar and file it away. With luck you won't need it but if she does get back to you, all evidence you have will be handy for a tribunal.
The accountant should have done the finances right and as she isn't asking for money at this stage, then sounds as though she felt settlement at the time was suitable.

Original poster

kitkat1967 · 26/05/2010 13:07

As an aside does anyone know how long a previous employee can have this kind of hold over us? I don't know what we will be doing in September and wondered if I will continue to have to justify our families childcare and education choices.

OP posts:

HarrietTheSpy · 26/05/2010 13:37

Strix raised a similar question earlier. It would be good to figure out whether we could clear this up somehow. It's a question which has crossed my mind from time to time too.

nannynick · 26/05/2010 18:46

Harriet - Would it be 3 months, as after 3 months the ex-employee can't put a claim in for unfair dismissal?

Strix · 26/05/2010 19:39

I think from Squiffy's post on my earlier thread the answer was 3 months for the reason Nick states. But, it was not exactly balck and white. So, generally, 3 months is a rule, but by no means set in stone.

How's that for clarity?

Flip

1 2