Childminders and First Aid

[Triathlete]

Hello

This may have been done before, forgive me if it has.

Our highly active, very big and strong, and fearless 2.5 year old is with a lovely childminder and we're all very happy. Yesterday he rolled into a log on the playground and got a thick ear and a laceration on the big bone behind the ear.

When I picked him up in the evening, about 4 hours later, the CM told me that she hadn't cleaned it, as they are not allowed to do "intrusive first aid". The most they can do is run water over it - no savlon, no calendual cream, nothing....

I was flabberghasted. I was and still am angry and upset that poorly drafted legislation, over-cautious interpretation, fear of malicious litigation, and all the bloody rest of it is creating a situation where an adult can't dab a bit of cream onto a child's scrape.

I realise there are a lot of inferences in the previous paragraph. Has anyone else come across this before? How have you dealt with it? Can we ask Nick'n'Dave to repeal it? Do we have to give the CM written permission to do first aid? And what happens if he breaks an arm?

Flippin' angry

Cheers

Tri

Nonsense, so why do we have to have plasters, antiseptic wipes,dressings, sterile eye pads etc. in our first aid kit.
Ok its not necessary to put cream on but it is to clean a wound and dress it.
All childminders have to attend a 12 hour first aid course and we have to have a full first aid kit which is checked.
I presume you signed the accident book.
Without seeing the actual wound though it may be that all that needed doing was cleaning the wound.

I signed the accident book indeed.

The CM was upset about the accident, but told me very clearly that she had been advised that only "non-intrusive" first aid could be offered ie rinsing with water - no cream, nothing else.

It's entirely possible that this is a regional "over-interpretation" of some poorly-written policy.

I'd welcome others' thoughts as well.

Thanks

Agree that without seeing the wound it's difficult to judge, but she ought to have cleaned it.

She should definitely be able to disinfect wounds and put a plaster on with antiseptic if necessary.

My insurance as a nanny covers me doing First Aid, her insurance as a CM should do the same.

If he breaks his arm I assume they go to A&E but I realise that's not quite what you were saying

Triathlete I'm afraid your childminder is absolutely right. We are not allowed to use creams or other things. And they are not in my newly bought first aid box for that very reason. Some people may be allergic to cetrain ingredients and who is to say that the child we mind is not one of those. The only thing we can use is water. This is to be on the safe side because water will do no harm. If there are bits embeded like a splinter or sting we should not try to get it out but cover it with a plaster and let the parent do it. If it's something that we can't sort out we are to seek professional medical help since we're not trained doctors or nurses.

apotomak - when did that come in? Neither my ICP nor my 1st Aid cert said anything about not disinfecting wounds. What about if you just use an iodine solution?

And you can put a plaster on but not a cream? I would think the incidence of allergies to elastoplast among the population is significantly higher than those who are allergic to, say, Germolene.

That just seems so counter intuitive!

Minders should have individual consent forms to administer basic first aid, and also emergency first aid, such as choking and compressions. I also have consents to say that mindees are not allergic to plasters.

WRT the wound personally I would have cleaned it with water, then wiped with an individual antiseptic wipe, I don't use creams as these can be easily cross contaminated, if the injury needed possible further care I would have contacted parents to discuss, obv if it was urgent it would be straight to A & E.

Hi before I became a cm I worked as a district nursing sister and have staffed A&E departments for many years. I think I get a lot of business from parents because I can and do cope with emergencies and the odd cut or 2.

I use my commen sense and always act in the best interest of the child, if a cut needs washing and disinfecting then I do it..

I administer calopl after texting a parent permission.. they sign for that on pick up and I have dealt with febrile convulsions.(fitting after high temp) for goodness sake lets get back to commen bloody sense here.

you cant live your lifeso worried about litigation that you dont act in the best interests of a child.

shock horror I also apply suncream!!!

Exactly the same as 'atwork' - I was told we even had to get bloomin sudacrem signed for EACH DAY I've had to use it. Needless to say I do not go that far as it's absolutely crazy. So yes, the creams thing is CORRECT i.e. we're not supposed to use them. However, we have antiseptic wipes in our First Aid kits and they can be used. Tbh, if I felt something was needed but didn't warrant GP/hospital, I'd give the parent a call and let them decide whether or not to leave it until they collect.

x'd posts - about sudacrem!

So is the cream only cross-contamination? What about individual sachets of cream?

I wouldn't put cream on, just rinse with saline and then plaster if neccessary

frakkit I did my first aid in March and that's what we were told. I (and others too) was quite surprised because my home medicine cupboard is full of that stuff even though I never had to use it myself. At the end of the day you make the final decision what you put on a wound but that makes you also responsible if anything goes wrong. The are very clear guidelines on what you can do (ie clean with water). If for some reason I'm not sure what I've done is enough I'd take the child to GP to be doublechecked and obvoiusly with serious stuff I'd always call 999.
thebody you are doing the right thing with calpol but I bet you would not dare give it to the child if you haven't got the written permission (text or email is good enough but they still have to sign on collection), or if for some reason you could not get hold of the parent to ask them if it's ok ...

One thing I meant to say....when thinking about things I ask myself this question 'is this rule here to protect ME from getting into trouble or to protect the child?'. If I thought a cream was needed and I KNEW this had been used by the parent before, I'd get them to confirm this on email/text then I'd go ahead and do it. I've had children stay with me for 3/4 days, what would happen if they needed something? Not going to wait for a bit of paper saying I can help them.

apotomak - if I need to give calpol and can't get hold of the parent, I give it anyway (as long as I know they've had it before). I have blanket permission for certain medicines so I'm covered from the off.

Forgot to say this is as long as I've had the child for 4 hours that day. Obviously I wouldn't give before then unless I knew they hadn't had anything at home earlier.

In My humble opinion I think the whole world has gone mad.
I have also completed the statutary 1st aid for childminders and several other 1st aid courses over the years, if we not allowed to use the knowledge we've gained, whats exactly is the point.
Surley if you have all the necessary policies, risk assments and parental/carer authorizations for all such occurances, surley its down to parnet and CM discretion?
Like I say, just my opinion

I couldn't agree more

Thanks folks this has been a helpful discussion. Like many people I beleive the world has gone mad - a protective principle of "If you do nothing, you're not liable for anything" has taken over any dealings with anyone - last winter I remember we were advised NOT to clear snow from the pavement in front of our houses as we might be liable if someone slipped on the cleared path. Of course this would have led to my pensioner neighbour ebing unable to get out at all.

A little while ago police officers didn't break down a bathroom door because of "Health and Safety" issues - the poor woman having an epileptic fit on the other side died. PCSOs refused to enter a lake to look for a child who had fallen in for the same reasons. The child drowned.

For CM's it seems you are trained in First Aid so that Ofsted is not liable for registering you if you are not trained, but then told not to use it so you are not liable if things go wrong....

There are some helpful pointers on here. I shall have a discussion with our CM about giving basic First Aid if necessary.

Thanks to everyone who contributed, you've been super-helpful.

I'm not sure this is down to a fear of being sued, actually. I'm sure I've read somewhere that wounds often heal quicker without being disinfected and that all most such injuries require is water to wash away any dirt or grit.

I'd be erring on the side of caution, too. I once used sudocrem on a nappy-rash only to have it flare up into a very nasty reaction. Now I get the parent's written permission and insist they specify the preferred brand of cream if they want me to use it.