Childminder rate

[Elffriend]

I'm hoping not to get flamed for this as I'm probably breaking some law or other but I could really do with a bit of guidance!

I have a nanny for DS. She works part time hours and will reduce further come September because DS will be at school fultime. She is also about to go on maternity leave. We agreed that when she came back she could bring baby with her but for those hours where she will not have sole charge of DS we agreed a notional lower hourly rate and factored that into a new annual salary.

Whilst she is on leave (which she intends to be for a max of 3 months) a friend of hers volunteered to look after DS alongside her own DS. This seemed a great idea. DS knows her very well and her DS is a regular playmate. As it was for a short time early (and no, she is not a registerd childminder) we said we would pay her £4.50 per hour (net) for when she had both boys together but £9 if DS was in sole case.

She has queried this because it is lower than the minimum wage but looking at local childminder rates they are lower than that anyway. I want to be fair to this person but surely I don't have to apply the NMW in this circumstance do I? More would give me a problem as it would be lower than what I pay our nanny for those "notional hours" (she is well paid overall!). Help! My great plans are unravelling when I thught I had a win win!

First, yes it is breaking the law!! unless it's for under 2 hours a day and fewer than 14 times a year.
£4.50 an hour seems a fair rate for someone not registered, insured, vetted business insurance for car, qualified in paediatric first aid or inspected.
More than I get as a qualified, registered childminder.
In theory, childminders are self employed so nmw doesn't apply.
I take it this is also tax free? Not a bad little earner all told, .
Why don't you just use a qualified childminder for the same rate. Especiallly as this is a friend of the nanny, not yours.

I charge £4.50 per hour and I am a CM! You are probably better off with a registered CM then you can claim tax credits.

I'm afraid if you're 'employing' her i.e. she's coming to work for you in your home then yes, you have to pay at least the minimum wage. I'm a childminder and yes, my RATE is £4.30ph but when you add up the children I care for, I'm on up to £17.20ph, this could be £25.80ph if I didn't have 2 of my own childrne. So what a childminder's 'rate' is is not usually what they are actually 'earning' per hour. And if we didn't get enough business and did end up on less than the minimum wage, that would be tough for us as that's the joy's of being 'self-employed'

Thanks for the inputs - I'm really not trying to do anyone down!

She will not be coming to my house (althought she will have that option if she fancies a change of toys from her home!) We will take DS there and collect him and will also send his lunch/tea with him so that she does not have the hassle of cooking for him.

Yes, it would be tax free and she would be paid expenses and mileage etc.

The reason I have not looked for a qualified childminder is that I (and more importantly DS) does not know of one. It seemed to me to be a better option to have him with someone I know (I do know her as well, just not as well as my nanny) and whom DS knows and trusts and he gets a built in playmate who has been one of his friends since they were a few months old. I don't really like the idea of him being with a stranger.

So, not an unreasonable rate then? (even though I'm not supposed to be using her - I can't afford to get her registered etc. and she does not intend to become a childminder long term so it is certainly not something she would do herself) If she turns us doen now I clearly will have to find a stranger.

I agree thats a good rate as I am a childminder and charge about £4 an hour per child.

i only chrage 3 pounds and hour so id be more then happy

Ok then it's illegal isn't it? She can't 'nanny' from her own home I don't think. Sounds like she'll be childminding without being registered? Can someone confirm as I'm not 100% sure? That would make a big difference re the rate too imo.

Have you thought about the implications if DS had an accident whilst in her care? Unregistered=unable to get insurance!

She should be paying NI and tax on earnings - am not sure that YOU wouldnt be also be in trouble with the taxman if anyone reported her. She should have first-aid training and also be aware of local safegurading procedures. Personally, as a parent and a cm I wouldnt even consider it!

Contact your local Family Information Services dept and ask for a list of available childminders - a lot of us do offer temporary contracts.

i would just pay your nanny the money like you normally do and as it was her who set it up and her friend who is doing her a favour, let her sort her friend out wage wise then you dont get into trouble for paying an unregistered childminder. in your eyes a friend of the nanny is helping out and covering for her, you are not paying her so its like a friend watching your child for nothing and you continue to pay nanny as normal

Its outright illegal because she is illegally childminding - she has no insurances, checks, training etc, AND she is earning money and not declaring it.

Makes you wonder why on earth you do things the right way doesn;t it! The rest of us jump through hoops and bust a gut trying to be the best we can, we pay into the system and someone like this person you are considering is happy to operate illegally with the most precious possessions we have and defraud the system to boot. As you can tell I am not in agreement with your decision.

To find a decent registered childminder ring your local FIS, have a look on the local boards of Netmums, www.childcare.co.uk.

if it's 4.50 net, what would it be gross? How many hours is it? You might have wriggle room there. sounds fair (morally if not legally) to me btw.

Thanks for the responses. I know many of you would not agree with what I am doing - which I have thought about long and hard.

Cheryl - I am continuing to pay my nanny anyway - she is on maternity leave and will be paid monthly accordingly.

Tokengirl - it's about £5.20ish. If she has sole care it is MUCH higher.

Pippin - I do understand your anger. Would I have preferred to sue a qualified person - of course, I am not a law breaker and, as I pay for most of nanny's qualifications, registrations etc. then I am well aware of the hoops to jump through. It would be cheaper for me too! I AM a conscientious parent.

However, for a three month period I weighed my options practically (flexibility over school run etc.) and emotional (he/we know and trust said person)and this was my therfore my decision as the best option for DS. I respect your right not to agree with me. If I had a nearby relative who could look after him in the short term I'm guessing you would find that reprehensible too?

Anyway, no wish to antagonise. So I'm sorry for offence caused. Thanks for everyone's help. I will be very happy when nanny is back, with baby, all safe and sound and happy.

USE a qualifed person, not sue one.

I think what you need to do is agree a gross wage so hours worked so whether she brings her son or not so could meet in the middle maybe £6 gross an hr for all hours worked then you are paying min wage, she then can be responsible for her own tax and ni as only for 3mths (ensure you write that into a contract).

Have the care taking place at your home then no laws broken.

If she doesnt want to do above then find a temp childminder for 3mths