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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Mindees sleep AIBU? Rant alert!

25 replies

CarrotGirl · 10/05/2010 18:40

Parent of mindee has suddenly started getting very controlling about mindees sleep. Apparently there have been probs at bedtime. She mentioned it the other day and I took it on board (fair enough), but no need to hastle me about it.

Mindee in question gets no more than 1 1/2 hrs sleep a day, sometimes less, sometimes more but never more than 2hrs.

TBH I feel very insulted that she feels she's getting too much sleep and I really don't appreciate being "managed" by parent, I am self employed and very much in demand, not her employee

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leeloo1 · 10/05/2010 18:57

How old is the mindee? If you're making sure she doesn't sleep too close to home/bedtime then there's not much else you can do.

But... whilst we are SE, we also have to work with the parents and if they're having probs at bedtime then it'll be annoying for them. Have you asked the parents what they'd like you to do about sleep issue? wake up after X time, try to put down for nap earlier etc? Even if they have no ideas, it might make them feel you're on their side and value their input?

Also I'd ask them what time and how long LO sleeps when she's not with you, as sometimes their nap timings change and parents 'forget' to tell you... (I had this when for 2 weeks was struggling to get LO to sleep at usual AM nap time, mentioned to parents and they said 'oh yes she only has a PM sleep at home now - )...

Any help? If all else fails you can make a tiny change to LOs naps and ask them to montitor it for a week or so, then it throws the prob back at them for a while!

Missus84 · 10/05/2010 18:58

Is she just asking you to limit sleep? I'd have thought it was quite normal for a parent to have a say in this.

booyhoo · 10/05/2010 19:05

i think it is very reasonable of the parent to ask the CM to restrict mindees sleeping if it affecting bedtime.

if it is a baby, i cant imagine that 1.5 hours is affecting bedtime that much but if it is a toddler or orlder then yes it can be quite frustrating if you put your child to bed at 7 but they wont sleep because they slept from 3 to 5 in the afternoon.

you need to speak again with the parent. ask her how long the child is allowed to sleep for and the latest time she/he is allowed to sleep to. this way you are both clear on the matter.

BoysAreLikeDogs · 10/05/2010 19:06

yes, it's part of working in partnership to listen to parents wishes

The parent might want you to limit naps (although IME limiting naps does NOT improve sleep) so you might need to think about say building a pre-lunch nap into the day and taking a post-lunch nap out for example

Of course in the middle of all this is the needs of the child; the child has a right to rest and parents wishes or not if the child needs to sleep then they should be allowed to

ho hum CMing can be a tricky balancing act sometimes

The parent might be ultra-tricky at the mo because of being overtired themself?

Hulababy · 10/05/2010 19:09

How old is he?

Before she was 2y DD needed less and less sleep during the day or her night time sleep was really badly affected. By the time she was 2y a half hour nap in the day would knock her night time sleep back by at least an hour or more.

I asked nursery to ensure she did not sleep in the day wherever possible.

I see no problem in this. Surely you are there to work WITH the parent, and expect to follow some of their parenting wishes?

nannynick · 10/05/2010 19:14

How do you stop a child sleeping?
How do you get a child to sleep?
I can do quiet time to enourage a child to nap and they refuse to nap. We go out and they use up lots of energy and they then nap in the car/buggy.

Original poster

CarrotGirl · 10/05/2010 19:15

I don't mind her asking me to limit sleep, but it's the double checking that bothers me...as if I have ignored her requests, which I havn't. I really don't like the way she's approached it...mention it one day and then check the next as if I havn't listened.

I think her dc is just excited to see her in the eve (mine was the same after a whole day at the cm and I didn't get too bothered by it).

She seems to have an issue and has decided it's my fault! I would understand if she mentioned it one week then double checked the following if things havn't changed. But she hasn't given me a chance, it's the pushyness I really don't like.

Leeloo, thanks, like you idea of changing nap and getting them to monitor

OP posts:

BoysAreLikeDogs · 10/05/2010 19:19

do you write nap times in the daily diary?

booyhoo · 10/05/2010 19:20

well, that's a different issue.

she should have just left it on the day she told you and only if she was still having problems at bedtime should she check with you that you are still following the agreed routine.

if she asks again tomorrow i would aks her to give it a week and see how it changes things and if it's not working then you can both discuss it again then.

BosomsByTheSea · 10/05/2010 19:21

Does she pay you to look after her DC? In which case aren't you 'employed' by her? I find your attitude a bit tbh.

HSMM · 10/05/2010 19:22

Do the children have any form of diary, so she can see exactly what times her DC sleeps? If not, it might be an idea to make a note for a while, so you both understand what is happening.

However ... if a child needs sleep, then they sleep. I won't make a child sleep if they're wide awake and I won't wake a child from a deep sleep.

BosomsByTheSea · 10/05/2010 19:30

Sorry - that came across as a bit stroppy. I just meant I'm not surprised she's wanting to talk it over with you. Maybe she has a bit of a bee in her bonnet and she can only think it must be the daytime naps to blame.

Maybe she thinks you are somehow encouraging her DC to sleep all day . I can see it must seem that she is questioning your professionalism, but I expect she's desperate for her DC to settle at night and is clutching at straws.

Hope you get it sorted.

Missus84 · 10/05/2010 19:34

Bosoms - childminders are self-employed.

Original poster

CarrotGirl · 10/05/2010 19:41

Yes all mindees have a diary, I'm a good cm and all other parents are happy. I just feel that this particular parent is a bit pushy.

Completely agree HSMM, if they need sleep then they sleep, if they don't they don't. I frequently wake other mindee up from sleep as he'll sleep all afternoon if he gets the chance.

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KiddingAnxiously · 10/05/2010 19:45

It depends on age - my DS's crèche used to let him sleep and I got very annoyed about it. He goes for 4 hours a few days a week.

He had dropped daytime naps before he went to the crèche and was sleeping through the night (as he had been for ages).

I knew when he was sleeping at first that it was because of the extra activity during the day, but when it started affecting his sleep at night I asked the crèche to cut it out.

They did and he went back to sleeping at night.

Not quite the same thing, I know it may be handy when children sleep but I wouldn't expect a service I was paying for to work in detriment to my daily life.

My DS was two when he started.

KiddingAnxiously · 10/05/2010 19:48

But crèche may be different to cm....

BosomsByTheSea · 10/05/2010 19:53

I understand that Missus84, but surely even if you are self-employed, the parents are your clients/customers, so you need to keep them happy?

Missus84 · 10/05/2010 19:57

Yes, but there's a different relationship between a service provider and customer, and an employer and employee.

BoysAreLikeDogs · 10/05/2010 20:00

Bosoms we sometimes have to balance on the knife-edge between parents wishes and the rights of the child

Original poster

CarrotGirl · 10/05/2010 20:15

Agree Boys, it is a balancing act. I think the parent possibly wants to collect her dc, put dc in the bath and straight to bed like she used to when she was younger.

Mindee is probably just changing her sleep routine which'll take everyone a while to adjust to.

Feeling a bit calmer now anyway. I know a lady who gave up CMing because of the parents...hmm

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leeloo1 · 10/05/2010 22:36

Glad you're feeling better - and that my suggestion was helpful.

Its v easy to blame the CM as easy target and not look at bigger picture - of child's changing needs/teething/growing awareness of missing parents etc!

Parents are definitely the most stressful bit of the job - I had one who used to kind of go when she looked at the daily diary and I spend ages wondering what on earth I'd done wrong and it really used to put a blight on the end of my day. Its so difficult when you try so hard to make the LOs happy and the parents seem ambivalent, but I've learned to try not to take it personally...

Al1son · 11/05/2010 14:19

The rights of the child must take precedence. Wasn't there a nursery judged inadequate (or at least criticised) by Ofsted for waking a sleeping child at his parents' request not too long ago? I've been trying to find a link without success.

I work on the principle that a child will sleep for as long as he or she needs to if there is a reasonable level of noise. So we carry on as normal in the next room and don't worry about keeping particularly quiet. The sleeping children wake when they're ready.

Original poster

CarrotGirl · 12/05/2010 07:24

Quick update:

Al1son - Yesterday mindee was tired earlier, instead of playing while I made lunch she wandered around with a blankie with her head on her shoulder. Went to bed straight after lunch.

I woke her after 1 hour, she looked like she was having a lovely deep sleep (was tired from staying up late the night before!)....She dropped off on the sofa twice and I relt like the cruelest CM in the world.

She was shattered when parent came to collect and prob in bed asleep within an hour.

I suppose she may have got a bit out of sync. Her Granny has her 2 days a week and she's at nursery 1 afternoon a week - didn't discuss with me first, that's another story. I have suggested that we all do the diary, in the interests of maintaining her routine, but it hasn't happened. Just wondering if she is having big sleeps elsewhere.

Anyway, hopefully it helped in the short term, but I won't be doing that again too often.....Surely I have to do what's best for the child, not the parent.

OP posts:

HSMM · 12/05/2010 08:12

I think we have to juggle between the needs of the child and understanding the requests of the parent. It is really hard sometimes. I have a 3 yr old in my care, who does not normally sleep in the afternoon. She came to me yesterday and was really clingy all morning. In the afternoon she lay down on the sofa and fell asleep for an hour. When her Mum came, I said she had been really tired and had fallen asleep. Her Mum said they had mistakenly let her sleep the afternoon before, so she hadn't slept that night, so she was tired when she came to me. Now I feel guilty, because I may have given them another sleep problem in the evening! (NB: They did not tell me when they dropped her off that she hadn't had much sleep the night before - that would have helped).

Original poster

CarrotGirl · 12/05/2010 09:41

HSMM When my own dcs were that age, managing their sleep was always a bit of a balancing act too....If they don't get enough sleep they get over tired and tantrum, too much and they don't sleep at night and sometimes they try to stay up at night anyway just to try something new!!! When you combine that with CMing, you really are balancing on a knife edge (as BoysAreLikeDogs says).

It's also harder when mindees have a few different carers...Something I now avoid, unless they're before/after school children, if someone askes me to mind their child e.g. for 1/2 day a week I turn them down.

My other main mindee is with me 4 days a week and his Mum the rest and it works beautifully. He is very settled and happy and we all know where we stand (including him at bedtime!!!)

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