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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

how to tell an au pair it's time to go?

17 replies

neva · 10/05/2010 12:04

Au pair has been with us since Feb. During the first couple of weeks she was good with dd, playing with her, talking to her etc. But after that her interest seemed quickly to tail off. I come home from work to find her in her room with door shut, dd on her own, amusing herself. The only reason I have put up with it is that dd says she prefers it that way, so they have obviously not bonded. (dd is v chatty and sociable by nature and got on really well with last ap).

At the weekends she takes half hour long showers at the crack of dawn. Last two weekends my Saturdays have been ruined due to tiredness for this reason. Raised this with her and she made it clear she would not compromise.

Other things; her special 'healthy eating' food requirements; refusal to help DD tidying her room (again down to the fact they haven't bonded, I suspect); most recently misusing and ruining an expensive household item.

Trying to steel myself to tell her to go. She is unlikely to take it calmly and I absolutely hate confrontation.

Am I being unreasonable? And how to tell her, whilst avoiding unpleasantness? Thanks.

OP posts:
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GooseyLoosey · 10/05/2010 12:06

If you hate confrontation, can you get dh to do it or do it jointly?

LaurieFecktheToriesCake · 10/05/2010 12:08

It's avoiding what you view as 'unpleasantness' that has got you into this trouble. It doesn't sound like she's au-pairing your daughter at all.

Tell her it's not working out and give her a timescale to leave. Do not argue - be calm. State the same sentence again - do not be drawn in.

What are you afraid of? Why is she being allowed to run rings round you - did you tell her not to use the shower before 8am?

annh · 10/05/2010 12:12

What do you mean "she would not compromise" on the early showers. Who is in charge here? This is your home in which it sounds as if she is an unwelcome and unhelpful interloper. What age is your dd that she is being left to her own devices when aupair is supposed to be looking after her? I would sit her down, say this is not working out, here is a week's money and pay for her airfare back to her home country, then get her out of your house asap. If she wishes to stay in the UK, give her the equivalent amount of the airfare in cash and leave her to it.

bibbitybobbityhat · 10/05/2010 12:13

Tell her that it seems obvious to you that she is not enjoying her work with your family and that you are happy to let her go on her own terms and find a job that will suit her better.

Don't muddy the waters with complaining about her showers and her food requirements (all of us are creatures of habit and you do need to compromise quite a lot when you have someone else living in your house) but just say you feel she is not taking care of your dd as you would have liked and that is obviously because of a lack of bonding and it is a shame but can't be helped etc ...

neva · 10/05/2010 12:21

Don't have a dh!I have put up with it because the advantage of having her here, to begin with, outweighed hassle of finding someone new, and she does have some good points (good at housework, quiet, reliable at following instruction (showers aside; I did tell her not to wake us before 7.30).

Not really afraid of anything; it is unfortunately my disposition to feel anxiety at this type of situation. I wish it were not so, life would be so much easier!!!

OP posts:
Strix · 10/05/2010 12:48

Assuming that she has a contract and is an employee (as opposed to the old au pair visa status), I think you need to follow standard disciplinary procedures:

verbal warning
written warning
dismissal

(unless your contract states otherwise)

I completely agree that her performance is not up to snuff. But, I think you really should sit down and have a serious discussion about your expectations and give her an ultimatum. Say, these are the rules. You work for me, and I get to make the rules and you follow them. In return for following my rules, I pay you. That's how it works.

The shower thing is a bit of a shade of grey I think. It is your house, but she lives there too. When you say "crack of dawn" what time do you mean?

Of course there is another cunning way to deal with this. Just change the time the hot water comes on.

I think our nanies have the reverse problem. The kids get up and start making noise at about 7:00 on the weekend and they don't all appreciate this. But, I usually say that this isn't really something I can stop. I of course don't let them near her door. But they may well go running up and down the stairs.

StillSquiffy · 10/05/2010 13:29

As she has been there for less than a year she can be dismissed for any (non discrim) reason without any verbal/written warning procedure (you can dismiss her for example because your DD does not like her), but you will have to follow any process if it is outlined in your contract.

You will have to pay her a notice period (if this is not specified then it is 1 week for less than a years' service)

Realistically it is VERY awkward to have an AP serving notice if they are being dismissed so I would tend to deal with this by either (a) inventing a plausible excuse which she can't then get defensive about - eg your hours at work may be changing or you need to tighten finances, or (b) sit them down and ask how they feel it is working, then drive the conversation round to a motherly 'I don't think this is the job for you' chat (followed by a dollap of money).

b is more honest but you need to stay very much in control of the conversation so you need to avoid this option if you feel she might be able to turn it round or manipulate you.

GooseyLoosey · 10/05/2010 13:33

I agree with Squiffy and would go with the plausible excuse - you are going into a shared childcare arrangement with a friend - you don't have to justify yourself. Just tell her (asap so you don't wind yourself up about it), give her the appropriate amount of money and wish her well. Do not engage in long justifications about what you are doing and why.

Strix · 10/05/2010 13:37

Hey Squiff, so if I have the procedure outlined in my contract (as noted below) and it is less than one year, can I still dismiss without following the procedure?

neva · 10/05/2010 13:41

Thanks, Squiffy and Goosey, this was my instinct, to tell her circumstances have changed.

OP posts:
StillSquiffy · 10/05/2010 14:23

neva - having your DD 'ask' to stay in late club could be a good one

Strix - in theory you should follow procedure if it is in your contract, but in reality if they've served less than one year there is little they can do if you have not - if they sue you for unfair dismissal then you have to show a 'good reason' for not following process (and bad feeling when they live in same house could be put forward as a reason for not following it - though whether it is accepted as a good enough reason would depend on circumstancess). But they would have to have a 'bigger' reason for going to the tribunal in the first place in order for the breach to be taken into account. and at less than 12 months service there are very few grounds for claiming unfair dismissal.

Their other alternative claim is for breach of contract, where (if they pursued it) you could be liable for the losses caused by the breach. As an example, if your contract specified time periods for improving performance then they oculd argue that you owe them these time periods in extra wages, and possibly money to cover their emergency accommodation. But again the courts would consider why you breached the contract and whether you could have avoided the breach. Again, something like this would normally only really be an issue in the context of a much larger claim (eg if they were claiming victimisation or something else on top). Generally you could argue that you had no alternative to a breach of contract if you had reached a position where there had been a breakdown in trust.

It does all depend on the circumstances of course (and the consequences)

After 1 year it gets a bit more complicated of course.

FrakkinTheReturningOfficer · 10/05/2010 14:51

It's doubly complicated, of course, when they're living in your house.

I would initiate your disciplinary procedure now so the writing is on the wall in a legal sense and investigate your other options. If necessary then give her notice and pay her in lieu of it. Yes it will cost you around £300 but you're rid of her.

I second the advice about not getting drawn into it - write down what you have to say and you, the employer, are in control of the discussion. Let her go and sulk afterwards. If she takes it really badly she's just playing into your hands.

Double check your grounds for instant dismissal as well - if her attitude after your chat is terrible she could meet them. Incidentally would you constitute her being in her room with her door shut and DD elsewhere neglect? And is helping DD tidy her room one of her duties that she is persistently failing to carry out?

cantcarryon · 10/05/2010 14:51

Before 1 year there are no grounds for claiming for unfair dismissal except for discrimination (age, gender, sexuality). Does not apply here.

And all that can be claimed for breach of contract would be contractual notice pay.

Its as simple as that before 1 year service.

iheartmyboys · 10/05/2010 14:53

Where is your AP from? has she got friends in the same area she could move to? will she have to go home?

A real stressful situation, hope it all works out ok.

I agree that coming up with change of circumstances rather than what you are feeling - so much easier.

I had to ask an AP to leave once, I found and paid for a weeks alternative accomodation, a weeks pay, new sim card with credit (as we had given her a phone).
It just got to the stage where I needed her gone once it had been said allowed I didn't want her in the house. We asked her to pack there and then. Even paid for the taxi. I know it was all a shock and not 'nice' but we had reasons for her being out of the house immediately.

Do you have a friend you can have over whilst this conversation is going on?
Are you in a big city where finding hostel accomodation would work?

Missus84 · 10/05/2010 15:19

If you think it'll be horrible and unpleasant, I'd pay her notice period and offer to pay for a flight home - at least that will get her out asap.

greenshoes · 10/05/2010 19:43

Neva - I told my AP last night that it was time to go.

I have found him (? I know) fairly useless at following simple instructions and then coping with me once I addressed the issues. Basically I got no response (ie. a sorry or an explanation) and then no improvement afterwards...

So, I gave him warnings that I was not happy and suggested that we trial for another two weeks. Still no improvement and I have been tearing my hair out over such petty little things like washing and cleaning that it was getting ridiculous. I told him that we didn't 'need' an au pair to start the situation and then explained that the arrangement wasn't working out for us. He has been with us about the same time as yours and basically does as he pleases without many compromises for what I have asked him to do...very frustrating.

so - do what you feel is best and fall back on a change of circumstances if that is easier for you. I have given mine two weeks notice.

good luck

greenshoes · 10/05/2010 19:44

start the conversation I mean.

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