My mate is a bit upset after parents evening

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My friend's little boy attends a pre-school and she went to her first parents evening with her hubby. She is now a bit upset and her hubby is angry and wants to take him out of the pre-school. The key worker was very negative about her little boy he is 3 1/2. Told them he is having trouble holding a pen/pencil, doesn't play Power Rangers with other chidlren (eh) and cant count to 5! Key worker kept talking about a book she follows (I told her it was probably the EYFS book). She asked my mate "do you help him use a pen/pencil at home" She now thinks that her little boy is struggling, she works 4 days a week and the guilt she is feeling at the moment. I thought that you learn through play and if we just follow "The Book" how are children going to be individual!! Friends little boy is a lovely chap, very sensitive, loves his food and he is great to look after.

Sounds like the keyworker hasn't really understood the EYFS at all!

The key worker sounds as if she has a bad attitude (or is very inexperienced) and also sounds as if she could do with some training on how to liaise with parents appropriately.

Reassure your friend. In her place I would request to meet with the manager/senior in the room alongside the keyworker to raise these issues. I personally would handle it quietly initially, it may just be a case of the keyworker having very poor skills in communication.

I did tell her to maybe meet with the key worker again and go through all the things she brought up but I think her hubby is pretty p off. I told her not to worry and all kids are different. I thought "The Book" was a guideline and shouldn't be "if they haven't reached this stage there is something wrong". Grrr it really winds me up.

Of course if there are concerns about a child's development then they should be raised with the parents but no practitioner should wait til sodding parents' evening fgs

honestly, I am not surprised that the father wants to pull the child out but yes speak to the manager first

did they get a written report at the meeting?

an idea would be for the parents to write down, as nest they can remember, word for word, what the key worker said to show to the manager

• as BEST not as nest

angry typing ain't very accurate ho hum

The keyworker sounds like a conmplete twat tbh.

AFAIK at this age they shouldn't even be 'learning' just playing. At our 'parents evening' for DD they basically were just talking about personality, she shares, she has friends, she doesn't like to play house, she won't do puzzles with boys, that sort of thing. At 3 and a half he shouldn't even be encouraged to hold a pencil and 'do writing' work. I don't even know how DD1 holds a pen tbh and she is now 4.3.

Your poor friend, she must be in bits.

Tell her to shuv "the book" up her sideways, tis A4

Very funny atwork!!

Will tell mate to think of this next time she sees this "key worker".

It would do no harm to help him learn these things though surely? Its not like she is suggesting he learns Chinese or something?

My DD is 3.8 and can count to 20 and further if helped at thirty and forty (she gets mixed up) can add simple sums and can write her own name. She plays with other children and makes up games herself.

Did they have any positives at all or are they only remembering the negative comments?

She's taking the EYFS as a set of targets that children must reach though, rather than looking at what the child can do and building on that. They should be providing opportunities for the children to talk about numbers, give them reasons to count, involve number games in their roleplay etc rather than just ticking off what they can do in The Book.

I understand that Missus84 that's why I asked if there were any postive comments. Maybe he is better at other things? Or is it a problem that he can do it but won't IYSWIM?

My nursery is fantastic and I help out sometimes so I know how it is run. The kids are given 'jobs' to do and one of those in the morning is to help count all of the girls and all of the boys to do the register in the morning. They do the same at outdoor time, count heads to go out and come back in (to make sure they haven't lost anyone as well!) but the majority of the kids 2.11+ can count to 20 easily. I'd be very surprised if this child cannot count to 5, if he is unwilling to participate then that is a problem

HellBent yes your quite right it is good to help with fine motor skills, counting etc. But what annoys me is that we don't treat children as individuals anymore, some so called professionals just want to tick boxes, it's not right and it's not fair on the individual child.

As a CM I currently have 8 children in the Early Years group. I have one with very little speach and not very good academically, however childs social skills are fantastic and very arty. I have another who can count to 70, backwards from 20, recognises letters and can read some small words. Both of these children are 2.5 yrs old. They are both very good at the things that are individual to them, I wouldnt dream of telling a parent that one doesn't like to play "power ranges", she makes it sound like its wierd or something, perhaps he doesnt even know what it is or perhaps he thinks its naff.

Its about time children were treated and valued for who they are.

Find another nursery.

I've seen this before - some 'keyworkers' tend to downplay children's initial achievements in order to make a 'big improvement' by the end of Early Years.

Others are just unaware of the uneven way children develop.

Sometimes the environment just doesn't suit the child.

Either way this nursery is not conducive to your child's development I think.

This is my worry with the eyfs as it is set out in ages, admittedly the ages overlap but children all have varying strengths and weaknesses. Tell her to go back in and ask to see his learning journey which should show observations and pictures of her child.

At 3 some children can count to 50 odd but often just through recital as opposed to knowing that the number 10 is the same as counting 10 objects. My ds2 is 3 1/2 and enjoys holding pens and writing O for his name my dd1 is now 8 and could not hold a pencil correctly til age 6.

The eyfs is also the document used in the first year at school so at 3 1/2 is not meant to be completed.

I hope you can reassure your friend that her son is developing well at his own rate

Maybe ... just maybe ... there might be a bit more to that. My friend had a similar conversation at her DC's nursery but it was also pointed out to her that there may be a reason for her DC being a bit behind. She was refered to health visitor and then a specialist and it turned out her DC is autistic. And I have to point out at first glance you wouldn't know she was only when you look closely at social skills and general development and behaviour. She's now getting professional help and DC is getting better because they know how to handle them.
I'm not saying this is the case here but sometimes parents don't want to hear and acknowledge certain things and instead choose to move child elswhere. I've seen this happen elswhere ... even with childminders when something was pointed out to the parent they got all defensive and moved child elswhere quickly.
Or it could be that the person who spoke to them didn't know how to word things and it just came out all wrong. At my older DD's nursery they always praised first and then pointed out areas where she might need extra help.
I (as a parent) think it is important to know where the child needs help becuase it's not nursery/school's job to provide the whole education but to work closely with parents to make sure the child has the best support they need.

As a very experienced nursery worker I would not be concerned at all that a child did not want to hold a pencil at 3 and a half.
I would be providing a variety of different activities to develop gross motor skills, such as twirling ribbons outside, painting using household paint brushes and throwing and catching balls.
Then, when the shoulder and arm movements are more developed, i would move onto developing the hand, wrist and finger movements. This can be done lots of ways, eg. threading, small construction like Lego, water play, sand play, painting at the easel, playing with playdough and shaving foam.
Children's bones do not form properly in their hands until 6 or 7 and some children simply cannot hold a pencil at 3 and 1/2, and should not be forced to.
The trouble with the EYFS is that it is only as good as the person delivering it. It does state in the guidance that it is not to be used as a checklist. Unfortunately, some early years workers do not have the skills or the knoledge, or the training to deliver it properly.

My DD refused to count or learn anything till she went to school. She loves drawing, art and crafty stuff. She is very socialable but has to work hard on her maths and reading. If the EYFS was about when she was at nursery I probably would have got the same response. My DS who is 2.5 and he can count to 20 and recognise numbers. Every child is different keyworkers should be a bit more sensitive when telling parents. I will tell my mate to have another look at his learning journal. Thanks for replies.

yy apotomak, but the point we are making is that no childcare professional should be waiting until a parents evening to raise concerns

good post purepurple, that's the conversation keyworker should have been having with the OP's mate. obviously it's hard to comment at 3rd hand, as OP's mate may have been shocked so just remembering the bad, but constructive concern for a child's development should involved - I think you should speak to HV/GP and we are going to do x/y/z, to focus on areas a child is struggling with, rather than saying - your child isn't doing x/y/z.

Are we sure that the conversation really went the way that it's reported? I only say this because there's nothing that'll give a parent the hump quicker than someone saying something 'negative' about their child, lets face it we've all been there!

I don't think that saying 'he doesn't play Power Rangers' is bad at all, if he doesn't then he doesn't it's hardly a negative comment just a statement that he doesn't like Power Rangers/dressing up surely?

Asking whether mum helps him to use a pen at home isn't a massive critisism either, imo the key worker has highlighted that he can't yet hold a pen and is asking whether he's getting any help at it from home, I wouldn't have found that an odd question had it been asked of me - I help my DD and my mindees with pens when they're here and they're all younger than 3 and a half. DF has been known to show DD how to hold a pen/read to her/show her how to do various things and he works 5 days a week so I don't think for a second that the keyworker was suggesting anything at all about how often the mum goes to work and neither should the mum feel guilty at going 4 times a week, everyone needs money unfortunately!!