nanny shouting

[Olivia99]

hi, what would you do if you caught your nanny shouting at your 3 and a half year old because he hadn't put his clothes away properly. I came home early and my nanny didn't know i was downstairs when this happened.
I (probably mistakenly) didn't raise it with her at the time as I didn't want to undermine her in front of DS. But now thinking about it a couple of days later I've realised there have been a few examples where I think she is much too stern with him. DS is such a good little boy, he's quite sensitive. we have only had the nanny a bit over 3 months She's great in other areas of caring for him, very motivated, good cook etc. But I'd be interested to know how you would react to this and any words of advice. I'm definitely going to raise it with her this coming week, it will be a good opportunity to suggest a review. Thanks in advance.

Children put their clothes away? I find they don't and probably shouldn't really... they are children. While they can be encouraged not to sling them around the room, putting them in a pile would be acceptable to me.

I think you were right not to raise it with DS present. However it should be raised as a matter of urgency, as I do not feel that a 3.5 year old should be made to put his clothes away - isn't putting clothes away part of the nannies job? All for children being independent and learning to tidy up but I feel this may be going a bit far. Helping tidy toys is one thing... putting away clothes I feel is another. It's just not what I would expect a typical 3.5 year old to be doing.

Maybe I'm out of touch... maybe the children I care for get an easy time... I don't know... would anyone else be expecting a 3.5 year old to put away their clothes?

Shouting at a child I don't feel is good. A firm stern voice may be needed at times but shouting isn't very suitable in my view.

Agree... good opportunity for a review.

I would only ever shout "at" a child if there was an immediate safety issue, like a child running for the street or if a child was lost, I would shout their name to get their attention or help them find/hear me. But to shout at a 3 year old for not putting their clothes away??? That's both mean and unreasonable!!!!

Define shout. And is nicks point fair? I personally wouldn't expect it either but if you as a parent want him to then that's fine.

Assuming he is supposed to was it full on screaming 'put your clothes away this minute you little worm' (unacceptable), end of her tether 'I've told you 50 times to put your clothes away who won't you listen?!' (understandable but not professional) or firm, slightly raised 'put your clothes away now, X' (more acceptable). Nannies are human and sometimes we lose our temper. I've managed not to at a child so far but if it was the end of a particularly trying day then I know I can feel very frazzled. Did she seems stressed when you saw her after that?

I do feel you need to raise this with your nanny, maybe her global approach to expected behaviour and discipline is different and you need to find out so you can let her know what you want. Even if it is understandable as a one off it's not something you want to encourage or let slide. I wouldn't being it up first in a review, praise what is going right before you get stuck in on the negatives. A good opening question might be 'how are you disciplining X? Do you find this is working?' then see if she admits anything. If she doesn't say something like 'I feel you're being quite stern at times' then raise the shouting incident. Give her an opportunity to respond and the set out what you would like her to do. End the meeting on a positive note, assuming you don't have irreconcilable differences!

FWIW I'm pretty strict with children but I only shout if there's an immediate safety concern. Otherwise I raise the volume and lower the pitch. If she's screaming like a harpy that's not on.

I would not be happy about my child being shouted at for such a non event! My 10yr old puts her clothes away, my 2.5yr old puts her dirty clothes in the washing bin (only if guided) but wouldn't be able to put them away. I don't think there's any need to shout at a child for not doing things properly, instead they need to be taught how to do it (if indeed you as a parent think your DS should be doing this). There is no excuse for shouting at the poor little lad, how is that going to help him?

I DO shout at my children btw, when the occassion warrants it (for example running away/not coming when called/doing anything dangerous etc) so it's not neccessarily the shouting I would be cross at but the lack of reasoning for the shouting.

As a mother of a child the same age I would not be happy with a nanny shouting at ds even though I scream at him like a banshee sometimes.

However in a safety situation it would be acceptable.

Expecting a 3 yo to put clothes away is a little OTT. My 7 yo can just about bring them up the stairs and dump them on this bed for me to put away later. So imo she is wrong to shout at him for something most 3 yo do not do. Now if he had pooed in the waste paper basket I would have spoken loudly about his inappropriate behaviour

I don't see anything wrong with expecting a 3 yo to put clothes away, it's not a very complex task. But I also don't think it's ever necessary to shout at a child really, unless you need to attract immediate attention in a dangerous situation.

I would be very cross if a nanny expected my 3 year old to put his own clothes away - that's what she's paid for! I don't see how a child at 3 would be able to fold them neatly or hang them up; entirely unreasonable - and I have 4 children, so it would be dead convenient to have them do such chores!!

Shouting, that's way way off the scale - like the others said, if she shouts at him for that, then what does she do about other more important things? You could ask your child whether the nanny shouts a lot. He should be able to tell you at 3.

at the 'that's what she's paid for' remark.

The children I look after are older than 3 (4½ & 6½) but their parents have told me that they should be encouraged to help with any household chores that are to do with them - such as clearing up toys, laying the table and clearing it after the meals. They also help put away their clean clothes and put dirty clothes into the laundry. Basically they want the children to be helpful and not expect others to pick up after them and to realise that it takes everyones co-operation to run the house.

The key words here though are 'encouraged' and 'help'. No child should be shouted at to do those things - it may make them do it straight away (through fear!) but it won't be productive in the long term. And it would be a difficult job for a 3 year old to do independently. So, the children I look after do put their own clothes away (sometimes on their own, often with my help) but they do it because they want to help. Even a 2 year old can 'help' pair socks together and carry them with you to his drawer.

'that's what she's paid for'
emy72 i hope you don't say this in front of your dcs.

This was one of the first things i told my nanny. I want my dcs to learn how to help around the house. To me a good nanny will encourage independency and if is done in the right way it raises the self esteem.

How many threads in 'Relationships' about 40yrs old men who 'cant use the w/m' ?

'putting clothes away' could mean i fold them and you just put them there or put the socks in that drawer. Just like a game.

However shouting is not on.

OP, i would praise the nanny for teaching him every day tasks and then i would mention the shouting.

X post with nbee

I'd hand a 3.5 year old a pile of folded clothes and ask him to put it away - you may have to go along after and check they're in the right place/refold them but it's still a good habit to get children in to! A nanny (or mummy!) shouldn't be a child's skivvy.

Slightly off track, can i just say that nannies are only human and sometimes they just like the rest of use make human error.

No its not particuarly acceptable, but even as parents we occasionally shout at our children.

As a childminder (which I am), I am not proud of myself on Friday, walking my lively (school age) charges home - well they were on scooters, they were being little monkeys who didn't have good listening ears on at all and although we have walked the route (what feels like) a zillion times together and they know the 'rules' they choose to ignore how we walk (scoot) safely despite being talked to 3 times prior to that.
I ended up shouting - well it was more of quite a raised voice which was very stern.
Plus I took their scooters of them.

Now, it bought on tears with one of the children (and yes oh boy did i feel bad about that) and very shocked faces from the others (guess what I rarely raise my voice or shout). I told the parents of the situation. Like i say, I am not proud of it and still feel awful that I made one of them cry but my primary concern was the safety of the children. Different I know to the OPs situation but however I made a judgement call and had to use my authority - which I don't feel great about.

I would say, that if you feel uncomfortable about your nanny then you need to talk to her so that resentment doesn't build up or you worry yourself that the situation is perhaps worse that what it is.
you need to retain that trust you have in your childcare provider because once that has gone how can you have a good working relationship.

And just for the record, yes I do think young children should be taught to help put clothes away, along with toys etc. It can be done in such a manner that is fun but its the teaching of (concrete) life skills that home-based providers are good at. i am not trying to excuse the nanny shouting at the child - thats not good but just spare a thought that things might not be as you thought they were.

I too am a bit at the 'being paid to' comment. As a nanny I am there to replace the parent while they are away. I am not a maid nor a slave. I encourage the children to help with chores (some they do are their own and I do not help with these). How else will they learn how to do chores, learn responsilitiy etc

As for the shouting, she may have asked 100 times and was at the end of her tether, she may be a noisy loud person and to her she was not shouting just speaking loudly. I would speak to har about it but not do anything as yet. See how she goes and if it happens again they take disciplinary action.

I don't have a nanny. However it is part of a nanny's job description to tidy the children's clothes away, I have read it on here many times. That's what I meant about that's what they get paid to do.

If a nanny did not want to do it and specified it before we signed a contract I would be fine with it too. However, if I found she shouted at my 3 year old to do something it is in her contract to do I would be fuming.

I would see a nanny as a replacement of me, the parent. I said I tidy up my own children's toys and clothes and would not expect them to do that at that age. I do however, ask my 5 year old to help and would be happy for a nanny to do the same. So it wasn't meant in a "maid" sort of comment. I am shocked it was interpreted that way. Crikey!!!

It depends how loud the shouting was and how many times your nanny had asked your DS to put the clothes away. I raise my voice to my charges when I want them to do something that I have asked as it seems to get them to listen rather than thinking that if they dont do it (pick up clothes/toys etc) I will! As I am not their personal slave!!!

when my charge (resception age) came in from school he was used to getting changed...

from reception age i expected him to put his dirty socks in the laundry basket (in his room), and by year one i would expect the socks and shirt to be in the laundry basket, and the jumper / shorts and tie to be on the chest of drawers...

By "on" I DONT mean neetly folded, (I did that) but i mean on there and not sprinkled over the whole bedroom floor!
And no way would i shout, when it wasnt done it ask him to go up, and sometimes, (say we were all downstairs then having tea etc) I wouldnt notice (until i got the PJs ready for bath time), so then a simple request of "before you go downstais for (TV and milk time) can you put your clothes where they go please" which he always did...

shouting is just NOT necessary and i would NEVER have expected his 3 year old sibling to put clothes nicely!!!!! (just taking them on / off independantly was good enough for me!)

A three year old in a nursery would be expected to tidy away toys, hang up their own coat, put their own cup and plate away - so I don't think these kind of things are unreasonable to expect a child at home to do either. My general rule is I won't do something for a child that they are perfectly capable of doing by themselves (even an 18 month old is capable of putting toys and books away).

The issue isn't asking a child to put things away though, it's the nanny shouting and being overly stern. Personally I think the OP is well within her rights to request that the nanny doesn't shout at her charge, and disciplines in line with the parents.

i have made/asked my then 3yr to put clothes away as mb/db and i want the children to learn to tidy up/look after theirselves

should be more than capable of doing it - maybe not put perfectly away but if my then 3 now 4yr pulled out all his jumpers etc, he would put them back in the drawer

agree there is SHOUTING and screaming at child or just as frakk said the tone of voice after asking x number of times and pateince goes

yes good not to bring it up infront of child but you should have said something afterwards or it will grate on you (as it is now)

you say that nanny is too stern on him - like what? or is she just sterner than you?

my 22mths can tidy up toys/put dirty clothes in wash bin before bath/take cup to dishwasher etc

but then again mb and i agree on child labour

I look after a two three year olds have always incourged them to put their clothes away get them out etc would never shout though. I had one of the girls from 20months from day one has always put things in the laundary basket laid the the table cleared the table hepled top put toys away. Have always found start from an early age then when they do get older it all gets done with out fuss

imo, the only time I would ever shout at a child would be if they were in immediate danger - and then, it would be due to my own fear rather than anything else.

I can't think of any other situation when shouting at a child is necessary or even acceptable. There is a tone of voice which a person can use that commands far more authority, and means that the adult retains control of a situation.

Most of us seem to agree that not having tidied his clothes properly is an unjust reason for your nanny to be shouting anyway. But regardless of why she was shouting, I think you should still talk to her about the fact that she shouted at all.

It needn't be specific, or even all that critical, if you're worried of creating any tension. You don't need to tell her you haerd her shouting. You could just catch her at an opportune moment and say sth along the lines of 'I just wanted to talk over DS's discipline with you, so that we're all consistent in his care'. Let her know what you do in various situations, and what you find acceptable.

Otherwise, if she's been with you for 3 months, you could suggest a meeting to review how she's getting on, and slip something similar in there...?

I always appreciate openness and honesty with the parents I work for. Chances are, talking to her will help put your mind at rest, and she might appreciate you communicating with her about your son...