Help me set things right with my nanny!

[chandellina]

I had my first tense exchange with our much-appreciated nanny today, over the rate she's charging to look after our son for an extra day this week.

She had already told me she is looking after another child that day, a regular babysitting she does. I asked her today what we should pay, and she said her usual net rate per hour.

I queried this, since she'll have another child too. She works for us in a nanny share, so we pay only half of that usual net on a normal day. I wasn't aggressive, but implied I didn't think that was totally fair.

On reflection, I now accept that I should have just agreed to her asked-for rate, because she's basically doing us a favour, and, as I said, we very much appreciate and treasure her.

Unfortunately, she took the tense moment to mention that she's discovered the going rate for nanny shares is actually £2 more net per hour than she's getting now.

Now I'm in a bit of a pickle and don't know what to do. Apologise? Forget about it and move on?

(She hasn't asked for a pay rise, her contract doesn't renew until September, but now that info is out there.)

Again, not bargaining down. Just offering the rate she normally pays her.

The way I see it, nanny is simply sharing with another family that day and should ask to be paid the same amount she usually gets. I think it's a tad ishonest that she hasn't cleared this with other family, which makes me think about her intentions.

But, as I said before, if I were the employer I would not make a fuss ON THIS OCCASSION. I'd just pay the doubled rate and move on peasefully. But, I also would not consider a pay rise to the tune of more than about 5% when the review comes round. And I also would not hire her next time I needed a nanny/babysitter on a day she normally doesn't work, unless she offered to match other babysitter's price.

"I am always thinking of the children I look after and go to extreme amounts of effort to ensure their develop as well as possible."

Can we have an example?

I remember once reading about Nick's day where he sorted the plumbing by calling the local whtsit department and a whole host of other people. I was truly impressed. That was definitely beyond the call of duty.

"What I think nanny employers fail to realise sometimes also is that there is really no amount of money which can compensate / equate to the effort a good nanny puts into her job. "

I love that. Why then settle with just a salary, which is after all only money? Why call it a "job" at all?

I am .

You normally pay the nanny £50 a day to look after your child and the other family pay the same for her to look after theirs? She is working a day for you she wouldn't normally do and is asking you to pay £100 while still getting £50 from the other family (who have no idea she is working for you as well that way.?)

I think it's a different family, i.e. not the usual share family.

"Geez. I wish my boss would "grovel" and bring me flowers when I don't get a pay rise in line with the "going rate" or overtime pay. That would be nice... "

• me too. I watch the few friends who have nannies grovelling and buying generous presents and generally "appreciating" their nannies and decide once again that the juggling and stress involved in managing with nursery and help from my parents is more than worth it when compared to the financial implications of nanny-employing plus even more stress and angst...

"What I think nanny employers fail to realise sometimes also is that there is really no amount of money which can compensate / equate to the effort a good nanny puts into her job"

I think you'll find there is - its called our salary luv. Lol.
If you do not feel that any amount of money can compensate you for all your hard work and efforts, why bother working at all? These mere mortal nanny employers are clearly beneath you...

I get £9net an hour, which I happen to think is perfectly in line for my experience and qualification... but what I really feel 'compensates/equates to my efforts' is when my boss leaves me little notes in the book telling me what a wonderful woman I am for sorting the washing out when there is a quiet moment, or picking up some dog food when we're out and about, or asking her whether she wants me to get together my charges things for their weekend away... equally, when I get cards on xmas/birthdays etc thanking me for all my help and reminding me how awesome I am... I've kept all of these things btw, they to me, mean so much more than money.

A bit off topic but I just thought I'd put my two pennies worth in!

A nanny is worth what they're worth - they decide this up front and with the family. There's no changing the goal posts afterwards, no walking because you don't get the payrise you want and someone else will offer you more and no demanding a set figure as a payrise!

TBH this should have been dealt with in a contract. I can understand why nanny is asking for her full daily rate as she is technically working overtime. That said she's already working and you're effectively going in as part of a share so you're not paying the extra for sole care so why should you pay the full rate? Tricky one.

the £100/50 was just my example to make things easier - not sure what op pays her nanny

but i assumed the op nanny wanted her whole nanny wage from op rather than just half

as she didnt have both children then should be just half her wage, so i can understand why the op was a bit

problem with shares that if one child is ill/on holiday etc then both familys should still pay the salary, but when one of the share wants an odd/extra day it can cause complications

maybe in next review put in contract that if any extra days are asked and agreed that if one child/family then daily rate will be half or three quarters?

but then thats not fair as the nanny will be earning a lot less

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

in the end you asked the nanny, so next time say to her that you need extra hours and you are willing to pay xxx for them or you can say you will ask your cheaper babysitter to do extra hours

See if the nanny didn't have another babysit I wouldn't have a problem AT ALL with her being paid her daily rate. It's her daily rate but just happens to be paid by 2 people who jointly employ her.

What I do find cheeky is her asking for her daily rate even though she has another babysit lined up and it's still effectively a share situation.

Yes, SS exactly.
Yes, Frakkin, I find that quite cheeky, too.

I don't think it's cheeky. It's just her rate, it's totally outside the context of her contract, so it isn't and shouldn't be bound by standard terms. She can set the rate at £2000 a day if she wants to. It's up to the client to decide what they are willing to pay. Calling it cheeky implies that the nanny is under some kind of obligation, which she isn't at that particular time.

See is it outside the term of the contract? Is there an overtime rate set?

If there is then it's not cheeky at all to ask for her daily rate. That's the overtime rate that was agreed. It is if she's making another £2000 on the back of another babysit WITHOUT the knowledge/consent of the other parent.

It is cheeky, despite her not being under any obligation (which actually she is to the OTHER family who she's babysitting for). It's cheeky because she's already being paid by someone for that time.

TBH I would have handled it as a nanny by saying 'I have another babysit, I need to check it's okay with that parent and you can make up the difference to my usual daily rate/pay your share rate'. I wouldn't ask a parent to solely pay my full daily fee when they're not getting sole use of my time.

Ok lets say daily rate for working for one family is 100 and nannyshare £140 (£70 each family).

On this occasion the other family didn't even know that the nanny is having your dc aswell so i assume they will pay her £100. And £70 from you makes £170 which is still more than her usuall nannyshare (£140) and compensates for 'emergency helping out'.
Did she expect £100 each (£200 total)?

I think that either she was a bit greedy or fed up of something else?

She did it as a favor to you, but I wonder how the other family felt about it? It was cheeky for her to ask for the full daily rate, I could see it being more reasonable if she had no other work on that day and she was going out of her way for you. But she was effectively still working as a share situation, and so should have charged accordingly.

Smupcakes' attitude is awful! Nannies agree their salary and duties as part of the contract negotiations and just because you think you deserve more, doesn't mean you actually should get paid more! Otherwise every single employee on the planet would be demanding a payrise!!! We should all work hard and go above and beyond, nannies are not unique in that respect.

I think the bit that would annoy me is "she took the tense moment to mention that she's discovered the going rate for nanny shares is actually £2 more net per hour than she's getting now."

If I had asked rate, she had said usual one, and left it at that, I would probably think oh well one day, I;ll eat it. Butm the fact that she snapped about her rate makes it obvious that she is harbouring resentment over her salary, would annoy me.

Also, as Laquitar just pointed out, a nanny share commands a higher rate than a sole nanny job. So, at the very least you should not be asked to pay the nanny share inflation (40% in Laquitar's example).

But, it's the snappy attitude that would sour the tone of upcomming contract review for me.

I would look at nation/regional averages of nanny pay from when she was hired (or had her last review) compared to now, and that would certainly influence the level of raise I was prepared to entertain.

I agree with the point about the other family, but we can't really guess what they really feel about it. Perhaps nanny had agreed in advance with them.

Unless of course there is agreement in advance, I still don't think it's cheeky to ask for whatever inflated, above-market rate you like on your off-day, under whatever conditions (nanny share or not), even if she was making £200 total from multiple families. Up to the service provider to set the conditions. Up to the customer to accept/reject them.

I agree nanny isn't handling salary negotiations very well, and THAT will cause problems in future ifyou don't address it properly.

Not up to the service provider - up to the employer to outline them in the contract. Nanny is not self-employed.

The fact it's not in the contract is what's giving her this leeway to say 'oh, well, I already have work but I want you to pay me as though I didn't'. If she'd said 'It's a day I don't normally work for you, I want double time' then I'd have said good on her but the 'normal net rate' is misleading. 'Normal net rate' per child? Per family? Per nanny per day? They could all give different figures.

Entirely academic now, except for the advice to put it in the contract for the future!

But in this particular context the nanny is not "employed" during the extra time, as it's not within the contracted employment conditions (assuming of course there is nothing in her contract about overtime). I would say she is not doing overtime but is simply self-employed for that time -- she is clearly setting her own conditions for her services. If it's not in the contract, the employer has no right to force overtime.

I agree that "normal net rate" is unclear.

But she's presumably not self-employed - she regularly babysits for someone else which gives rise to another employment situation, hence my earlier suggestion that the other family should have been involved.

Without knowing the ins and outs of the contract it's all very tricky, but I always have very clear overtime arrangements written into my contract!

Ah I may have misunderstood then I think,I was unsure if I had which was why I added the ???.

So you usually pay nanny half of her set hourly rate as she cares for two family's children at once, but she wanted you to pay her full hourly rate even though she was also caring for another child. If that is the case I can understand why you assumed you would pay as you normally do, as though you were doing another nannyshare day at shared care rates, and do think she was cheeky to ask you for full hourly rate and also be charging full babysitting rate to other family too.

Do you even know that the nanny is being paid to look after the other child? She could be helping out friends or family on a regular basis. And to be honest her looking after the other child is irrelevant to the situation. This other family are not part of your agreed nanny share arrangement are they? The nanny is working for you on a day she usually does not and also a day ,I guess, that she also doesn't work for the other "share" family. So why should she not ask for a full nanny rate? We also don't know what the other family think, again irrelevant to the situation, that's an agreement between nanny and that family. And for those of you that have critisised the nanny as cheeky,greedy and whatever else without knowing full details of the situation should be ashamed of yourselves!

What would annoy me most as an employer would be the comment about just finding out she's being paid less than other shares. That's highly unprofessional, if i had a problem with my salary i would ask for a meeting after work and sit down and explain my concerns. She sounds like a grumpy teenager to be honest.

I would have concerns that the other family knew about the shared babysitting she is out of line if she hasn't told them and yes she's obviously allowed to charge whatever she likes but i wouldn't want to pay full hourly rate if it was a share. I would maybe pay a little extra as she's doing a favour but i feel she is being a bit greedy.

nannyj that's what I think, too. I would never in a million years go up to my boss and say something like that... it's just completely unprofessional. If she wants a pay rise, there is a way to go about doing that... the way she did it with a snide remark is not the way... and probably cost her any sort of raise at all. What a horrible attitude.