CMs and vouchers for over threes

[MrsSantos]

Trying to be (unusually) organised here. DD will qualify for a place at the local preschool (fingers crossed)this autumn and I am trying to do my budget for then. I have applied for her to attend on the 2 days (only offer 2 days for 3 year olds) I don't work as I want to collect her and talk about her day etc. All being well that's what we get, but it is very popular and I may have to settle for days when she is with a CM. If she is with a CM before and after obviously that is a slot the CM is using up which could be filled by another child so I will have to pay the CM for the all the hours of care (currently does 2.75 days with CM). I will get the vouchers to cover the preschool costs but won't actually be any better off as I am still paying the CM for 2.75 days regardless. I don't begrudge CM who is great, but can't help feeling that all this guff about free places for 3 and 4 year olds is just that. I will still be paying for my child's care. The preschool only offers 2.5 hours (and yes, I know it's early years education not childcare ) but it is sold as "free care for 3 & 4" year olds - in fact, it is only free if your child is able to take a place on a day when you are not working (and if you are working full time then not at all). I suppose that's why people use nurseries but the local nurseries are either very expensive for me (I earn about £8 ph) and long waiting lists or really a bit crap. I am very pleased with my CM and the CM cover we have used overall and feel that for my DD it's been a much better choice than nursery.

Have I misunderstood all this?

You're probably right ... unless ... your CM is accredited and then you could leave your child with the CM instead of the pre school and claim your free hours there. Your CM is offering the same EYFS curriculum as the pre school. However ... if you choose to use the pre school, then just try and think of it as something extra your child can do which does not cost you any extra?

The preschool only offers 2.5 hours (and yes, I know it's early years education not childcare ) but it is sold as "free care for 3 & 4" year olds

Ah you mean the nursery education grant thing. Yes, it's currently 2.5 hours per day, max of 5 sessions a week, 38 weeks a year.

in fact, it is only free if your child is able to take a place on a day when you are not working (and if you are working full time then not at all).

Depends on your personal circumstances. Some Childminders are registered such that they can provide these Educational Sessions. However the grant may be LESS than the childminders hourly rate, thus childminders who are able to provide it may have decided not to do so given they make a loss.

I suppose that's why people use nurseries

Nurseries would get the same amount of grant as any other providers in your borough/county.

More information about Funded Nursery Education (this document is Surrey County Council branded, so reflects the situation in Surrey)

Parents may well use a nursery because they require full day care, whereas a pre-school only provides care for the 2.5 hours (or sometimes for longer, though there would be a charge for extra time). The entitlement increases to 15 hours a week from September this year I think.

I am very pleased with my CM and the CM cover we have used overall and feel that for my DD it's been a much better choice than nursery.

Nice to hear, though not sure of the relevance. You don't need to use the 'Free Entitlement', you don't need to send your child to preschool.

As your contract with this childminder is such that you will be paying them anyway, why send your DD to preschool?

Because time at the private preschool is a way for her to meet children who will go on to the very good local (also very oversubscribed) primary. I have been told that her chances of getting into the primary are much greater if she goes to the preschool. Several neighbours kids have attended the preschool and they rate it highly.

The relevance of my comment about CM suiting my DD better centred on the fact that this issue wouldn't arise were she at nursery as presumably the vouchers do reduce the cost of a nursery session once a child gets to age 3. But if you can't use a nursery then it doesn't work so well.

Though I think my CM is great, I don't think she is able to offer the same pre school experience as an actual preschool once children get to 3 and 4. Hence my decision to definitely send her to preschool. I was just pointing out that for many parents the "free nursery places" isn't really that at all for lots of parents.

The free nursery places aren't actually intended for childcare, though. People who send their children to nursery school (or pre-school) aren't doing it for childcare, they're doing it for pre-school education. That's what's free, not your childcare.
As Nannynick says, you don't have to use the preschool, but you've chosen to take up two places at the same time.

I was under the impression that primary school entry has nothing at all to do with what preschool education a child may or may not have received. If it does, that's discriminatory and grounds for appeal.

...just to make it a little clearer:

If it weren't for the free entitlement, you would actually have to pay for both places. Thanks to the free entitlement, one of those places - the one at the pre-school - is free. Probably, if it weren't, you wouldn't be in the position where you can send your child to both.

Tanith - you didn't read my post. I acknowledged that preschool was education and not childcare.

My issue is one of semantics. In campaigning material and on many banners which adorn local nurseries, "free places for 3 and 4 year olds" are touted. It is misleading in many cases.

As for preschool feeding into primary - well in the real world there are implications. Would you actually gamble with your child's education by not using a particular preschool if you knew that choice would mean your child would end up in a less desirable school much further from home. (Just to be clear, the primary I have chosen is not some superstar place - it has done OK in its OFSTED reports - I have chosen it because the kids seem happy, the staff seem committed and neighbours' kids like going there, it is also very close to home).

I put my child into childcare because I am a single parent with no family living in my town. Financially, I couldn't not work (we cannot live on benefits). I have little say in which days/hours I work either. I suppose if you have informal, unpaid childcare options then you can use those to supplement the paid care and for preschool pick ups. I don't have those.

When I collected a mindee from pre-school (attached to primary) last year their was a mini riot .

The parents expected their children to be guaranteed a place at the school because they attended the pre-school. Their were a lot of very mums and dads when they got their offer letters. This pre-school had more spaces than the class sizes in reception, therefore impossible to take all children. Attending the pre-school is certainly no guarantee of being offered a place at the school. So be prepared, may be worth checking number of places before making your decision.

You can claim the 2.5 hours with the childminder but I do feel that your child would then miss out on the experience of the time in a learning setting.

Its annoying though hey that they sell it as free care when most have to pay for childminder at the same time..

In my book its just like starting school a little early for a few hours a day. Dont know why they sell it as free childcare... since when was school 'free' anyway..? Seems pretty expensive from where Im sitting (which is in front of my payslip with my mouth hanging open as I read the Tax & NI section!)

nannynick - Im afraid your are wrong, I work full time and got the free preschool/nursery/childcare what ever it is for 2.5 hours a day 5 days a week.

One more thing and then i'll get off your thread

Im afraid that they are not allowed to give preferencial treatment to children at preschool or nursery attached to the school. If you are unsure about the process of how they decide who gets a place have a little look on your council website.

Most are:
If your child has special needs.

If your child has siblings and is in local area

If your child is in local area

If your child has siblings at the school

Then anyone else is considered on the basis of how near they are to the school as the crow flys.

Although, I agree its a great thing to send your child to the early years 2.5 hours a day thingimy. Great for their confidence and developement and chances are he/she will get in to the local school and they will already have friends that hey have made at the pre school.