Could I as a CM tell a mum I do not like the preschool her DS goes to?

[Numberfour]

Or would that be out of line?

Reasons why I do not like it:

1. Mindee seems to go quiet when he knows that we are on our way to school
2. The preschool is in a hall and I was told today that the children have not been taken outside at all yet this term - despite this glorious weather
3. The person who runs the school never smiles at the children, hardly talks to them and appears to me to be more concerned about personal matters
4. The crafts that the children to appear to me to be particularly unimaginative (and my craft imagination is dire!)
5. The reports to parents on progress are one photocopied sheet
6. Parents are asked to make an appointment to see the head of the school or key workers if they wish to talk to them.
7. The staff appear less than enthusiastic about being there.

or is it really none of my business?

The mum is very happy with DS being with me and I do believe that she trusts my judgement but I would hate to overstep the mark and be unfairly judgemental about her choice of preschools.

yy if they want to then it's fine

(i have seen you use "yy" before.... what is it?? [rather thick emoticon])

Ask her if she is happy with the playschool..

oh sorry

yy = nods vigorously in agreement

I would absolutely definitely want you to tell me if you were my CM. One of the huge downsides to being a working parent is that you have to rely on others to be your eyes and ears - tell her, she will really appreciate it. Though depending on what kind of person she is (touchy, chilled out, whatever) you may need to broach it gently and make sure she doesn't take it as criticism of her for choosing that place. If she trusts you enough to look after her kid, I am sure she will value your opinion, particularly if this is her oldest child and sheis not that experienced at choosing playgrounds - I know with my eldest I was a complete novice and could have the wool pulled over my eyes in 2 seconds!

I'm probably the worst person to reply to this thread as once (when I was a nanny) I refused to leave my charge at his preschool on his first day due to the dire (much worse than this op, think open doors children running onto street etc) environment.

The craft stuff wouldn't bother me, yes it's rubbish but in all honesty if this child is getting a lot of attention everywhere else it doesn't matter and sort of balances it out. The attitude of the staff would worry me. Could you go and pick him up early one day on the fly to be nosey? Maybe they are a bit offish during collection and drop off purely to hurry people along? Not going out is also odd, could you phrase it to the parent in a cunning way somehow?

Also on the colouring in, it's not child led if you force them to stay in the lines. If you give them a sheet and let them get on with it then it's cool. When I had my inspection I had templates of animal masks for the children to colour in. One of the boys made hand prints all over his and I just let him do it even though of course a lion would not have hand prints for face! I got good so it's can't be too bad?

As a mum, I'd prefer it if you did.

I would definitely want to know.

As an ex working mum I'd have be so pleased if smeone had said something to me. YOu don't need to be prescriptive or indeed critical of their choice, just express your concerns in a mater o fact way and ask if one day she could perhaps come along with you. The open day or whatever wen they saw the pre-school would have been full of happy smiley adults and children playing along like the Von-Trapps. She has aright to know the truth. If she has the opportunity to criique the points which you, as a proessional, deem important, she will be able to make an infomed decsion.

I just don't see her doing anything but thanking you for it.

What I wouldn't do is research alternatives unless she asks you to. If she does decide to change it will be a ball-ache for her, so that's when you can step in and help.

Keyboard is naff...hope you can understand that garb!

I use 2 CMs and always want their input. One tells me very forthrightly (not a real word but it is late and I need my tea and some wine). She is a bit judgemental with it but I would much rather have her views. Plus, you are a trained professional. You know what to look out for so any parent with a bit of nous would listen to your views on other childcare/educational settings. I agree with others that, for the sake of good relations all round, it needs to be broached tactfully but please say something

thanks, everyone.

Navyeyelashh,there is no way I could look in to the hall to see what was going on because the main door is closed and the windows are a bit too high!! (And I take your point about colouring in - thanks for that).

Springythingy, I also did not think it appropriate to do any searching for alternate preschools until mum asked me to help.

I think I would also want to know if it were my child. I don't know how well she sees the school or why she even chose it - it is not particularly convenient for her.

just remembered something..... i could not take her DS when she originally wanted me to so made alternate arrangements until I could have him and while this was going on, I had told her that I cannot pick up from any school etc, so she said that she would send him to any school that was convenient for me so that she could be sure I could childmind him. I mention this to show her trust in me so maybe I should tell her sooner rather than later.

EYFS aside, how can you NOT take children out in this gorgeous weather we have been having in surrey???

Given that, you've got a good way to bring the subject up... If she may have chosen the preschool mainly because she thought it would enable you to mind her DS there and for him to still be able to attend a preschool for some of the time, I would think it would be fine for you to suggest that there are other preschools that you would be prepared to drop off/pick up at. So, a conversation opener might be "I've noticed XYZ about the preschool when I drop off. Does that bother you? I realise that I originally said that there were restrictions on where I could drop off/pick up, but the preschools at A, B, and C would also be OK for me, if you would like to investigate those..."

That way, you're presenting her with a potential problem but also a potential solution, but you're not giving her a preordained solution - it is still overtly her choice to do something or nothing, and if she chooses to do something it is still up to her to look into the alternatives and see if she likes them and they have spaces. A happy medium perhaps?

Just to say as a mum using a CM I would really want your opinion. In fact, we took our CM's opinions on board when choosing which preschool setting our DS will start in this summer. She's got years of experience with numerous children - we have less than 3 years experience of one child! I trust her very much and if she felt my DS was not doing well for any reason I would want her to mention it to me.

Perhaps you could ask her if the mindee talks about the preshool enthusiastically at home, as you sense there's not much enthusiasm about going. To me that's the critical thing here - you're the mum's link to their child through the day - the mum may have her own opinions on the school from her own research but you are the one who is seeing the child's reaction to that environment.

Has the PreSchool in question had an Ofsted inspection - presumably it must have had at least one. Do any of Numberfour's concerns get picked up in the official report. If the parent did not look at the inspection report prior to placing their child there, they might be grateful to you for taking the investigation one step further prior to speaking with them which by the way is exactly the right thing to do. The parents will I am sure be pleased to know of your concerns.

Thanks, everyone. I spoke to mum today after being told by a member of staff that the children have not been out at all this term yet. And that there outside area is a tiny probably 3 metre by 4 metre where a car is always parked!!!! No outside toys, no way to develop gross motor skills - no way to implement the Physical Development Area of the EYFS.

Anyway, mum was very grateful and was open to what I had to say. In fact she went so far as to say that she had been considering moving her DS anyway, and that her opinion on the matters I raised were the same as hers. She had chosen the school because her parents looked after DS for a while after a not very good CM experience. The school was chosen because and only because it was in walking distance from the DS's house.

I am very glad I had the courage of my convictions to talk to mum, and the replies above from both parents and CMs definitely helped. Thanks!

great result, well done x x x

their not there
her opinion was the same as mine.

oh well, you get the meaning!!

apologies to pendants for the error of my ways!

Yes, I think that as a CM (or nanny, or other childcarer) you can give a parent feedback on pre-school, providing you do so tactfully and constructively.

I am often surprised at how little full-time working parents know about pre-school and what goes on there.