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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

being offered more money ofr doing nothing...feels a bit wrong, what would you do?

47 replies

woahthere · 22/04/2010 10:24

I look after a little one for 1 1/2 days a week. The Father has told me that his company has a scheme that pays for childcare up to a certain large amount. He said to me that I could up my fees so that I could use all the money. What would you say, I feel a bit funny about it, Im not sure why ...would you?

OP posts:

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foureleven · 22/04/2010 21:51

I dont want to sound horrendously self righteous, although im sure I do.. but shocked at how many people would take the money.. Actually i dont think its shock that someone would take the money, more at the guy who has no loyalty to his firm...

HarrietTheSpy · 22/04/2010 22:05

As someone who regularly has to claim expenses back after I've paid out my own money for things (taxis to meetings, lunches with clients etc) I know how much these things can get scrutinized. If your fees start shooting up all of a sudden and then there is some query about it you could be asked to provide some further documentation. And you'd have to think whether to justify the increase, you'd be happy saying you were doing three days childcare, say rather than the one and half? And put that on paper, with your name on it? Or explain why you are charging twice (for the sake of argument) what people might expect a cm's fee to be. Lots of people use childminders and I don't think the fees vary THAT wildly. But more to the point - why you are charging more NOW than you were before.

I am also a terrible cynic about things like this. If he's doing this, is there anything else he's doing that could INADVERTENTLY cause his claims to you to come under scrutiny? I would wonder about that.

I think you are putting yourself at some risk. I'm just asking that you not underestimate this.

leeloo1 · 22/04/2010 22:33

Actually fees do vary widely - rates round here are between £40 and £90 per day!

HarrietTheSpy · 22/04/2010 22:43

As I said though the main thing is why they are changing from what they were before. This is what may attract some interest.

IsItMeOr · 22/04/2010 22:51

My instincts tell me this is wrong, but I can't put my finger on why. I wouldn't do it.

thebody · 22/04/2010 23:35

It must be wonderful to be able to refuse money.. wish I was that rich!

Why shouldnt she accept this? Its not illegal drugs money for goodness sake...

Why is it assumed he is fiddling his expenses anyway.. if he can claim the money then why shouldnt he and why shouldnt he then give it to the childminder for purely nice reasons.

a cm can charege what fees she likes, the inland revenue wont care as long as she has books in order and pays any tax due.

dismount high horses!!!

Original poster

woahthere · 22/04/2010 23:36

harrietthespy...when did i say my rates vary wildly? im a little bit befuddled. i have asked for advise and been told i am being a fraud or that he is even though we havent done anything yet! my charges vary between 3.5 - 5 ph as it stands and if they are late a lot more !
I dont think its about his expenses really. His company are from a firm where childcare is expected to be provided as part of the job because of where the firm is based as a country (i dont want to say too much because i worry about people figuring out who i am/ they are?

I must say I feel terribly accused and also dont think the guy has no loyalty to his firm... I happen to know (or haVE BEEN GIVEN A VERY CONVICINCNG IMPRESSION) THAT HE WORKS VERY HARD FOR THEM!! Shite, caps lock cant ne bothered to delete....sorry!

OP posts:

daysoftheweek · 23/04/2010 00:34

tax credit fraud maybe?

has he oered you all the money or is he keeping some for himself?

daysoftheweek · 23/04/2010 00:35

offered sorry one hand typing

tortoiseonthehalfshell · 23/04/2010 01:45

woahthere I think Harriet means, the company might look at the expense claimed and ask 'hang on, how is your childminder now being paid double what she was?' and the husband will have to say it's because your rates doubled, see what I mean?

I'd take it, though.

HarrietTheSpy · 23/04/2010 06:54

I don't understand why what I've said isn't clear.

If you've been charging a certain amount for your services, for a period of time, then it goes up to a "large sum" this guy is talking about, the company may wonder and start to ask some questions.

Your post started out with, "I feel a bit funny about this." I think you're right and gsve you a few reasons why.

I love the: "I wish I were so rich I could turn money down" plaint.Personally, I can't see how this is any different from a cab driver giving me a blank receipt and me putting £50 on it when the journey actually cost £15. And it's not even a question of 'high horse' so much as avoiding getting in trouble.

But clearly I shouldn't care so much!

IsItMeOr · 23/04/2010 07:12

Harriet - you'll know that I agree with you from my earlier post, but I don't think your analogy with the cab driver is quite right.

It's like him charging you £50 for a journey that he would charge somebody else £25 for, but you being okay with it because your firm is paying, not you.

I'm surprised that people's principles vary depending on whether money is on offer, but then I am very naive.

HarrietTheSpy · 23/04/2010 07:27

I accept that's a better analogy!

Tryharder · 23/04/2010 07:29

Er... I would take the money. If his company are prepared to pay £x for however many hours of childcare then I see no reason why you should not accept that. It's not fraud. You are entitled to increase your rates. If you really feel bad about it (and I wouldn't), can't you do a few extra hours for this guy, offer to babysit from time to time, provide a few extras.... Presumably you will then have to declare these increased earnings to the taxman etc

I've noticed the attitude on mn before that some people really hate to see others benefitting financially.

IsItMeOr · 23/04/2010 07:41

I think the root of my problem with this one is that the only reason you would be increasing your rates for this guy is because he told you you could double them.

I'm pretty sure that if his company found out he had done this he would get in trouble (because he's not acting in his employer's best interests) - but I guess that's not your problem. If his company's rules let him suddenly start re-charging them double for the same service, then they clearly need to review their rules.

But I've been thinking some more, and am aware that some businesses routinely charge companies much more than they would charge individuals for the same service. I'm thinking of coaching in the business world/personal sphere as an example.

I've always assumed that this was essentially using one workstream to subsidise another. Or charging what the different markets will bear. So perhaps this is a greyer area than I first thought.

I would be delighted to see others benefitting financially Tryharder. I still wouldn't touch this with a bargepole personally, as it seems too good to be true. And in my experience things that seem too good to be true usually are.

looneytune · 23/04/2010 09:33

Haven't time to read the whole thread. I've been paid double by a parent before because she wanted me to take on less children and I said the only way to do that is pay for 2 spaces and she agree . Not sure I'd do this though, I'd need to know more as would worry if it was a company scheme as not sure what could happen. Having said that, I don't see how you could get in any trouble as you can charge what you want. Just seems a funny thing for a parent to suggest.

HarrietTheSpy · 23/04/2010 09:54

To OP:
What would you say if he said to you: "You know that extra money you're claiming? Let's split it." How would you feel? Could you end the situation gracefully if you wanted to?

StarExpat · 23/04/2010 10:46

I still think if you just keep your rates the same and accept any extra as a bonus (and let parents know that's what this is) it would be ok. WRITE it so it is written documentation.
Then, if you are investigated by his firm, it's his fault for giving you some extra from the work allowance, not you charging him more than others or accepting more for cm fees.

mysteryfairy · 23/04/2010 17:49

My work pays a certain amount towards childcare as a contractual benefit. I have wrap around care for DD and pay for 5 morning and 5 evening sessions with my allowance, plus have a bit left over for occasional school holiday days. In fact as DH works from home she rarely uses the morning session, just goes occasionally if DH has a meeting or a lot on. If I didn't have the benefit from work I guess we might be more organised and knock some sessions on the head.

I don't claim childcare through expenses or share any invoices with my employer; childcare is administered entirely separately as a benefit which is part of my employment package. My company knows how much they have agreed to pay a provider but has no idea what sessions DD does or does not attend. For all they know my actual childcare costs could be massively in excess of their contribution (as they were a couple of years ago when DD went to full time nursery and her older brothers went to wrap around).

I think you need to find out more about the nature of this scheme but I would guess that all the speculation about this being claimed by the normal business expenses route is likely to be wrong.

HarrietTheSpy · 23/04/2010 19:42

I wasn't aware of such schemes and it may be from what you described that there is no audit that could occur if the childcare expenses went up suddenly w/o any obvious reason. It does seem a bit odd but if that's how it works, so be it.

Can I ask what industry you're in? And whether you negotiated this for yourself or if the company provides it for everyone? Is it taxable?! Or is it more like Accor vouchers where you're paid in vouchers?

Sorry, I am just really curious as I've never heard of anything like this.

ruddynorah · 23/04/2010 20:01

the father isn't claiming anything yet is he? so it won't look like a strange sudden increase will it? he'll just put his claim in and that's that.

IsItMeOr · 24/04/2010 06:37

Harriet - I think the OP implies somewhere she's not in the UK.

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