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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Maximum number of children per nanny/nanny share

26 replies

Gangle · 15/04/2010 22:05

We have a nanny share arrangement for DS1, 2 years, and another family's DS, also 2. We have just had DS2, 3 weeks, and the other mum is 5 months pregnant with their DC2. We are thinking of keeping the nanny share arrangement in place throughout our mat leaves and when we go back to work. The idea is the the nanny will have the younger two babies 5 days a week and that the older 2 will go to nursery 3 days and spent 2 days with the nanny. The days the toddlers spend with her wouldn't be the same so the nanny will only ever have 3 children at any time, the 2 babies and one toddler. Just wondering if this arrangement will work given the varying ages and difficulty in getting out and about with 3 kids. I see plenty of mums out and about with 3 kids so I'm sure it can be done but want to make sure that neither child suffers in the arrangement and that the nanny has sufficient time to focus on each of them. Presumably the ratio of 3:1 is still better than the ratios in most nurseries so they shouldn't suffer from lack of attention?

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Lifeinagoldfishbowl · 15/04/2010 22:08

I don't think 4 children would be a problem as long as they were all in the same type of routine

Also what happens when 1 is of nursery ill? The nanny will have 4 children - not that that would be a problem - just raising the point

nannynick · 15/04/2010 22:29

Max number tends to be 6 children - it's often the insurance limit. Some insurers will provide cover for more (think NCMA provide insurance for up to 10, though that may just be for childminders rather than nannies).

The idea is the the nanny will have the younger two babies 5 days a week and that the older 2 will go to nursery 3 days and spent 2 days with the nanny. The days the toddlers spend with her wouldn't be the same so the nanny will only ever have 3 children at any time, the 2 babies and one toddler.

That sounds horribly messy.
So lets say:
Mon - Babies
Tue - Babies +T1
Wed - Babies +T2
Thu - Babies +T1
Fri - Babies +T2

T1 would be at nursery Mon, Wed, Fri
T2 would be at nursery Mon, Tues, Thur

Just wondering if this arrangement will work given the varying ages and difficulty in getting out and about with 3 kids.

The biggest issue I see is transport. Even if a child is at nursery, they will still need transport to/from nursery. If the nanny has to take T1 or T2 to/from nursery, then transport is going to be a major issue - as not many cars will fit 4 child seats - or if walkable it will mean getting all 4 children to/from the nursery (probably two in a double buggy and two walking?).

So assuming the transport situation can be sorted out - such as by having a 7 seater car. Then I'd say it may be good to have at least one day a week where all 4 are together, so T1 & T2 can play together and have their siblings there as well. It won't be easy but it does give a day a week where they are all together and thus get along with each other. T1 & T2 will probably get along quite well together already and may be easier to handle jointly, rather than individually - as together they may play and entertain each other, where as individually they may get quickly bored with an activity and want to do something else.

Original poster

Gangle · 30/09/2010 22:32

Nannynick, I need your help again, if you can spare the time! I need to decide pretty soon whether or not the share can work with 4 children as I described in my original post, save that my toddler will probably only go to nursery 3 mornings, or until 3.30 each day, maximum, so she will have 2 babies (6 months and 10 months) full time, our toddler (2.10) from 1.30 every day and the other toddler of the same age from 3.30 (when his nursery finishes). Our toddler will only go to nursery 3 mornings/days and so she will also have him and the 2 babies on one day, if I work a 4 day week. My feeling is that this is really too much for one person, especially given the issues we had with cleaning up etc, which will presumably get worse as she will have less time given the additional children. We are also currently out of the country so I really feel I need someone who can just look after my two children and help them settle back into life at home, especially as my husband will not be joining us at home for a few months. Is it reasonable to tell her that we think the share won't work with 4 children? I don't want to upset her as I think she is still keen to work for us again (I terminated her contract when we left the UK at the end of July) but I have to do what I think is best for the children. As a further complicating factor, she is pregnant herself, not that this is playing a part in my decision, just think it's even more important than ever to do the right thing by her. We had discussed using her again when we came back to the UK but I made it clear that this would only be the case if we could agree terms with the other share family which I don't think we can, given the number of children involved.

OP posts:

nannylocal · 30/09/2010 23:05

Could you not employ her to look after just your 2? Is that not an option?

Original poster

Gangle · 30/09/2010 23:08

I will certainly offer her the job but doubt she would take it as we are currently no longer employing her and the other family are so it would mean leaving them, which I don't think she would want to do.

OP posts:

nannylocal · 30/09/2010 23:19

In that case I would look for a new nanny. If you can afford a nanny just for your two and the other family can afford to keep her on by themselves and she's happy working with them then you should all be happy to leave the share and go your seperate ways?

I know several nannies that started shares about 2 years ago with babies who were about 6-9 months and now all the families have had a second baby and have the same problem as you have! In a few cases the share has split with one family keeping the nanny, or the nanny leaving completely. I know one nanny who plans to have all four with the older two at nursery every morning. The worst case I know of is where the families in the share live next door to each other, both want to keep the nanny and she is having to choose which family to stay with!

It's a tricky one, but I'd say get your own nanny would probably be the easiest solution!

Original poster

Gangle · 01/10/2010 02:55

Nannylocal, I'm not sure if the other family do want to keep her exclusively. I know they want to send their toddler to nursery and have a share for the baby and wouldn't be able to afford nursery and their own nanny. In addition, the nanny is pregnant so I worry that if we don't re-employ her then her statutory maternity pay is going to be very low.

OP posts:

frakkinnakkered · 01/10/2010 04:12

I would ignore for the moment the fact she's pregnant.

Can you realistically find someone else? Can you afford someone else for just your 2?

It sounds like you're not happy about having her back. I remember some of the issues you had and your deliberations about whether to let her go or keep her in retainer and tbh if you were happy to let her go then my impression is you were prepared to find someone else and maybe it's just convenience/her pregnancy that's swaying you now.

Keeping this share has more cons than pros that I can see. 4 children is a challenge, you had niggles about tidying up etc, it means a lot of traipsing around in the afternoons, which is okay with tinies but rising 1s may not be so keen, and it seems the logistics could get even more complex if the toddlers are at different nrseries already. What happens in a couple if years about school?

Finally, one thing which might make up your/her mind - if you go back to a share nanny cannot bring her baby. That's 3 families and it's against OFSTED's rules.

Original poster

Gangle · 01/10/2010 04:56

Hi frakkinnakkered, you're up late! Thanks for your wise words. Yes, we can afford to have our own nanny - well, we'll be broke but the cost is really the same as having one in nursery and one with a nanny. The only way the share could work is for me to send DS1 to nursery full time which I don't want to do. As you say, there are more cons than pros. The tidying up, or lack of it, would drive me mad and there would just be too much coming and going with 4 kids in the mix. I was 90% sure back in July when we terminated her contract that we would need our own nanny but now it's come to it I feel a bit bad not re-employing her because she is pregnant and may not find another job for that period of time which will also affect her maternity pay. I did pay her a £350 retention bonus though back in August though made it clear that we would only re-employ her if we could agree terms with the other family.

OP posts:

chitchat09 · 01/10/2010 07:19

A nannyshare will be much more work for a nanny. TBH, if you had doubts about her before, they will be magnified. If she wasn't that great about tidying up, she will be much worse now.

Just because she is pregnant does not mean that you have to give her special treatment. You can't discriminate against her because of her pregnancy, but that doesn't mean hiring her just because she is!

nannynick · 01/10/2010 07:41

Are you under any obligation to re-hire her?

If the contract has been formally terminated, then you are not under obligation. Not sure about that retention payment though.

Blondeshavemorefun · 01/10/2010 08:18

the share wont work as nanny is pregnant and cant have 3 familys (hers, yours and share)

so you may as well nip in the bud now, and find a new nanny

if you are worried about smp then the only difference is that she wont get 90% of her pay for 6 weeks if not employed but you, but she will get sms which pays out £124.98

frakkinnakkered · 01/10/2010 12:52

Lol I was up early, not late. 3 hours time difference...

Original poster

Gangle · 01/10/2010 15:05

Contract formally terminated so not under any obligation to use/re-hire. We had discussed using her but it was clear we had to agree terms with the other family. I just wonder/worry about how the nanny will take it. Don't want her to think our decision is because she is pregnant - it's not. Also, how do I offer her the position first without it appearing like I am trying to steal her from the other family?

OP posts:

MoonUnitAlpha · 01/10/2010 15:16

I don't understand the maternity pay issue - if she's still working for the other family she'll get SMP from them?

Original poster

Gangle · 01/10/2010 15:21

Yes but won't it be fixed at 90% of her salary for the first 6 weeks? If we drop out her salary is only 50% of what it was so she will get 50% less SMP for the first 6 weeks. After that it doesn't make a difference.

OP posts:

MoonUnitAlpha · 01/10/2010 15:25

Ah, I see.

frakkinnakkered · 01/10/2010 16:24

Well you could say a share isn't feasible for you any more for a variety of reasons (differing schedules is one) and though you'd love to have her back you need your nanny to be on an exclusive basis at £x/week. Then she how she takes it. That way you've been as fair as possible, it's not because she's pregnant - it's because the share isn't going to be tenable anymore - and you've given her the choice.

Original poster

Gangle · 01/10/2010 16:26

thanks frakkin, that's what I was planning. Just hope she's ok about it.

OP posts:

Original poster

Gangle · 01/10/2010 16:31

Another thing I was thinking was maybe offering her one day a week so that she at least has some income on top of that she gets from the other family (I was planning on recruiting the new nanny on 4 days a week only at the beginning as I am doing a phased return to work). However, that would mean re-employing although I don't believe she would be entitled to statutory maternity pay as she won't have been continuously employed for 26 weeks before her due date. Maybe that's the answer so that she is not cut out completely. She may not want to of course!

OP posts:

frakkinnakkered · 01/10/2010 16:31

Good luck! Have you decided whether you actually want her back yet?!

Original poster

Gangle · 01/10/2010 16:42

Wouldn't mind, if she could work just for us, but would ideally like someone who could do the extras like the cleaning up, keep their rooms clean etc.

OP posts:

nannynick · 01/10/2010 17:34

Having more than one nanny on payroll may get a little more complex taxation wise. Two lots of payroll to run for a start.
Also a 1 day a week job would be heavily taxed, as their other job would be using all there personal tax allowance.

"If we drop out" - thought you had terminated, so you have already dropped out. Nothing to stop the other family finding another family to share with, is there?

Let me try to remember the problems/issues with this nanny:
Nanny went on holiday while you were recovering from a c section.
Nanny favours the other family/child (nappy chance incident)
Seemed to think it would be ok to bring the children from the share family to your home, when you were away on holiday. (You resorted to removing the key from her)
You were not happy about the level of clearing up after herself/the children she was doing.

The other family:
Dad is a "bit competitive" "been a bit odd" (your words in Sep-09)
They changed the share arrangement such that all 5 days were at your house, whilst you were on maternity leave. The other family didn't contribute towards the food/nappies/wipes fairly.
Contribute £12 a week to nanny kitty, but activities cost more.
Mums attitude regarding her child scratching your child.

That's just some of the problems/issues... can't be bothered to hunt for them all

You have had issues with both the nanny and the other family. Yet now you are still considering having that nanny, and that family? Will the same things just not happen all over again?

Original poster

Gangle · 04/10/2010 22:19

thanks NannyNick. That summarises it perfectly. Our own nanny is clearly the way forward.

OP posts:

Blondeshavemorefun · 04/10/2010 23:18

Plus if you have 2 jobs you get 2 smp / my friend has just over £250 a week in smp

if a nanny had 5 one day jobs would they be able to get 5 lots of £124 smp?

Gangle - glad you have seen the light and £95nett a day sounds good to me (on yr other thread) but rem OFFER gross wage :)

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