have ofsted lost their way a bit and are trying too hard?

[woahthere]

Yesterday I was at my local childrens centre...they are so excellent there. They support the local community so much, they have regular stay and play sessions, toddler groups etc and this is also where mums go for antenatal check ups, hv checks etc. The staff are brill with children and have always got their best interests at heart. Stay and Play sessions are planned so the children can do painting, they usually have a specific art activity planned, they have special visitors to give advice to parents, they have physical activitites going on such as parachute play, they do baking....point made, theyre just ace. Yesterday I was admiring their lovely display of frogs and butterflies and they had tied it all in to being about the speckled frogs song. The staff had made templates of frogs and butterflies and the the children had been given a load of craft material to decorate them. However, the staff have now been told they are not allowed to do that again because it is not child led and stifling the childrens imagination! For Gods sake, I find it just ridiculous, what is wrong with doing this kind of thing, sure some of the littler ones probably didnt care that it was a butterfly or a frog but they had fun and still got something out of it. She said they actually got properly rapped over the knuckles for it! I just feel that Ofsted are going overboard with all this child led malarkey. Im now looking at things Ive done with my kids and thinking I might get into trouble for it! Grrr . And anyway, how far do you take it, if I plan to do play dough, thats not child led is it...thats me offering them something to do and then them doing it because I had the idea. If I suggest getting the guinea pigs out for a cuddle is this me inflicting my love for animals on them? Surely there sometimes is a place for some kind of theme...I know for definate that my kds have loved themed activities I have done and they have all taken different things from it and enjoyed different aspects...so to an extent, child led. So Iam confused, what can I do, and not do?

Crazy isn't it! We all made daffodils with yellow handprints and green straws recently, it wasn't planned for a set day but I just said 'oh, would you like to make.....' but even if I DID plan it (i.e. I knew that day was supposed to be rainy day so a good indoor thing to do), I would never force a child to do them so as far as I am concerned, that is fine (and I'd like to see Ofsted argue this point with me!!! I've made a big complaint against them and won recently so maybe I'm feeling a little more cocky!! lol). The day we did those daffodils, the children also did a picture of one (handprint on paper, green crayon for stem/grass) because they 'wanted to' and were all really excited after we'd talked about daffodils in Spring. And guess what, they did their own paintings/drawings of whatever they wanted so they got to use their own imaginations and did their own stuff anyway. None of these children would have come to me and started a conversation about Spring and daffodils, they are too young really, but you should have seen how pleased they were with their creations. I am not taking these experiences away from them for no-one!!

Oh, and as for playdoh, it's the same. You get it out but don't force them. Of course you have to be able to set activities out for them so they know it's there to choose. Now my older toddlers will ask when they want to play with it so can have it whenever they want, but sometimes they get so into playing with babies etc. that unless you put it out for them to see, they forget!

Can't wait for the other people to take over from Ofsted inspections later this year, surely they can't be any worse?!!!

I have felt this way for a while about the regulations of child led activities. I worked in a day nursery in Scotland and it was exactly the same there.

We could not do templates for them to colour/cut n stick etc, we could also not give them colouring in sheets to colour as this stops there imagination.

Fair enough if your child is 5 and can draw what they want but i worked with toddlers who obviously just scribbble so I thought it was nice for them to have a picture in the background.

Used to really annoy me and YES I think its going to far in "child led" activities.

If I did child led it would be throwing the sofa cushions around all day with beebies on in the backgroud.
MIL was a primary teacher and she seems to go for the opposite - that you need to show children how to play and then they'll do it themselves

See the colouring in sheets I dont get...are we allowed or not`. My son love love loves Winnie the Pooh so I printed some out and he was so excited, coloured in specific bits of him...was very interesting to see the way he did the hands feet etc at such a young age... surely that is noticing what your child is interested in like we're supposed to. Who is taking over looney tune, I dont know anything about this?

I DO do colouring sheets, if Ofsted argue about that MY arguement is they still 'scribble' what they like anyway but it's nice for when they want to start concentrating on a certain area. We are not 'making them' use them, they are there if they want them. Sorry but I'm very with Ofsted these days!!

Here is a link about privatising Ofsted inspections

Child led doesn't stop the activities being offered, it means you can't make children do them. It doesn't stop you encouraging children to try new things like cuddle GPs and it doesn't stop you controlling the environment by puttibg playdough out.

A lot of places find it difficult to reach a balance between child led and enforced activities.

YOU can do anything you like. Nurseries etc have to cope with OFSTEDs multiple personalities and balance EYFS and child led play. Not impossible but not clearcut.

Or if you meant what can you do about it write lots of letters and get others to help do the same commending the staff, their activities, their responses to children's needs, their hard work etc and say how much your children enjoy it.

Argh bloody auto grammar iPhone that randomly selects and cuts. finish sentence before starting new one - you can do anything you like as long as you don't make the children do it. I feel sorry for nurseries....

Oh FFS, it didn't even capitalise that time!

It randomly won't let me finish...

I agree with what you're saying but I don't understand how nurseries are inspected differently? Surely we all follow the EYFS in similar ways?

Sorry, hadn't finished......was just going to add that with us childminders, it all depends on the inspector you get and THEIR views. This is the problem with Ofsted, a long standing problem on lack of consistency. This is one very good example of the sort of thing that ALWAYS happens re differing opinions.....inspector A insists you must NOT have scissors in your first aid box whereas inspector B insists you absolutely MUST HAVE scissors in your first aid box.

So EYFS or whatever, Ofsted inspectors all have their own way of 'interpreting' the rules, and this is what we and nurseries have to put up with!!!

What I was trying to construct re: OFSTED balanncing before the iphone decided to helpfully edit for me is:

"YOU can do anything you like (ie it's your setting) as long as you don't make the childdren do it (and as long as you can justify it: we don't have all the activities out all the time because of space/some children like colouring in but others like scribbling I have plain paper and colour sheets out). I feel sorry that nurseries etc (CMs, anyone else who has to cope with OFSTED) have to cope with OFSTEDs multiple personalities and balance EYFS and child led play. Not impossible but not clearcut. (I don't have to follow EYFS for which I'm profoundly thankful and even when I was registered an OFSTED inspection for me was 'can I see your certs? can I see your contract? okay, bye'.)

Does that make more sense?

How ridiculous though for an excellent resource like our childrens centre to be berated for such a silly thing dont you think?

I agree it is a nightmare - I am forever thinking should I be doing this with the children or not. However, when I do plan activities eg making cards, decorating things which have been cut out etc (which seem to me to be frowned upon), the children absolutely love it and can't wait to show their parents at pick-up time. There is no way that I would force a child to take part in an activity (it would be hard to do so anyway!)- however I am not going to stop these activities when the children love taking part.

How exactly can you force a child into doing an activity - I put all sorts of things out that my babies don't touch, it's a pain in the a*se but there's no forcing 2 18m/o's to do something they don't want to!

I can kind of see both sides of it. Initially when I started teaching, I was quite surprised that you weren't 'meant' to use templates of pre-drawn things/cut outs etc, but having worked with it for a few years the logic does make sense.

The idea is that to make daffodils, then rather than giving children a round sponge and green paint ('you put a circle in the middle') and pre-cut yellow circles of tissue paper ('you twist them like this and stick them here like this') and a green straw and pre-cut green leaf to stick underneath... you show the children lots of pictures/representations of daffodils and hopefully see the real thing too, then give the children lots of resources with which to make their own version (wool, string, feathers, paint, junk modelling - sorry can't remember what thats called now, recycled something or other?) so they use their imaginations and you get different interpretations rather than 30 identikit pictures. Some (many of them) will look nothing like a daffodil, but thats the point its their creation - not something the parent will look at and say 'ah a lovely daffodil'!

I have to say that when I looked at local nurseries, it really put me off one because their fireworks diplay was 20 photocopied rockets that toddlers had coloured/stuck stuff onto. It looked sooooo despressing and uninspired. Whereas another one we went to had a display of fantastic free painted & glittery fireworks that the children had clearly had free rein on, with a big sign that said 'Our fireworks pictures' (you probably wouldn't have known otherwise that thats what they were, but I think with toddler's pictures if you can tell what they are then the adult has had too much involvement in it!).

Of course it depends what you're hoping the children get out of the activity - i.e. colouring in detailed pictures can be good for fine motor skills, but they're more for relaxation than imagination I'd say. Some children will always sit and colour if given the chance, but it can often be because they lack the confidence to make their own creations so its good to encourage them to make something a bit more creative - which'd then be adult-led not child-led because they want to colour in! just goes to show you can do whatever you want as long as you can justify why you're doing it!

Sorry, have gone off on one a bit, just wanted to put in a different viewpoint.