nursery, childminder... decisions decisions!

[ojmummy]

hi, after some advice.

I will be returning to work in Sept & its looking like I will have to work 5 days My DS will be just over 8 months by then.

Just wondering what the best childcare choices will be, my Mum has offered to do one day per week. I have been to look round a local nursery (Ofsted 'good' in 2007) which seemed nice, I have also met a childminder who seems lovely but Ofsted gave her Satisfactory recently, and on the report it says children cannot use backgarden - I am assuming that its not childfriendly but I didnt question her about this when we met as I had a million other things going round my head. There are other childminders in the area too & I will see at least 1 or 2 more.

I need to drop off at 8.15am and pick up at 3.40pm so a relatively shortish day, a CM would work out cheaper as I will just pay for the hours I need rather than paying a nursery until 6 but not needing it until 6.

On the other hand I like the idea that DS will have other children his own age to play with at nursery & that they will have tons of toys/activities which he may not get at home or with CM. Also if I needed to go to supermarket or something I have the option of leaving DS in nursery until 6 if I needed to/wanted to.

What do you think about one day with my Mum, 3 in nursery and 1 with CM (or 2 nursery, 2 CM)? Do you think this would be too confusing for DS? Just thinking it would save a bit of £, give him some care in a family environment (CM) and also make friends etc within the nursery.

Sorry for the waffle! Hope this makes sense, just finding it really hard to decide whats best!

Children cannot use my back garden as I have a very large pond and lots of "unsafe" things. Instead they allow me to use my front garden which is also large and enclosed, does she have anything similar? It's worth asking further questions such as does she make sure children go out daily if she doesn't have access to a garden?

I also had my inspection in 2007 and gained an outstanding, this was pre-EYFS, so am not really expecting the same again as I am not comfortable with the amount of paperwork now required.

Satisfactory will not mean she isn't a good childminder, it's more important to feel comfortable and go with your instinct. Also ask if she can provide references from other parents which will give you more confidence.

I wouldn't split the care up too much mum + another carer would be enough.

Does the childminder look after other children or go to playgroups or meet with other minders?

It may be worth making a list to ask the other CM's you are visiting and asking for a 2nd visit at a different time if you are not sure. Its good that you are visiting different minders, which will give you more idea on what you prefer

hi thanks rosiegirl, I'm not too bothered about the CMs satisfactory, didnt mean my post to make it sounds as though I was - more concerned about the garden but I do need to speak to her about this if I decide she's the CM for me. She goes to the park regularly from what she said, & does school runs most days so my DS would be getting out pretty much every day even if it wasnt actually to the park IYSWIM

I do think generally the under 3's are better off with a CM.

If you find someone that has other children during the day, and she attends toddler groups etc, your baby will get lots of interaction with other children.

I CM and am out every morning doing different groups and soft play etc. The children get to do all the craft and activies that a nursery offer, but they also get the benefit of a home environment and I have a close bond with the children I look after.

I remember this dilemma well with my first DD 2 years ago. I decided on a CM and have never regretted it. I actually think DD has benefitted from mixing with children of different ages. CM attends groups and visits homes of other childminders so gets to interact with children her own age too.

I particularly like the fact that DD is cared for consistently by one person who has similar values and morals to me so her upbringing and the way she is disciplined etc is pretty consistent. Although they have a keyworker at nursery, all of the nursery staff in the room interact with & discipline them。 I also like the fact that DD gets to go out and about in the day and not confined to one room all day.

I do think however that's its important to find a CM that you really like and trust. If you don't find one, then maybe nursery would be better.

In terms of mixing CM,nursery and grandparent - I would personally find that too unsettling for the DC and too inconsistent in terms of childcare and unbringing. I would do choose nursery or CM not both.

Hope that helps

I'm a CM and agree with other comments. I personally think that 3 different carers a week would be too much. IME, this age are better off with as much time as possible with the person they are going to be with, it helps them settle quicker I have a mindee who is now 3 and has 1 day a week with 'granny' then the other 4 days they come here. It works fine. I started with this mindee when they were 8 weeks old and I think the 'granny' thing started quite early on and we've never had any problems. I admit a lot of this could be down to the fact they started so young but I also can't see it being a problem with an 8 month old. 4 days with a CM/nursery and 1 day with your mum would be great imo.

I personally also prefer CM for under 3's but as the last poster said, you really need someone you like and are happy with their style. Visit some more CMs and go with your gut feeling

I worked in a nursery before becoming a CM and, without being biased, would choose a CM!!CM's are more flexible and offer better one-to-one care which means that they get to know and form bonds with the children they care for-i'm not sure that can be done in a busy nursery.CM's have to work within the same legal framework as nurseries, so the care will be just as professional, and, although CM's care for smaller groups of children, the children may also attend pre school sessions or toddler groups whilst in a CM's care.Visit both types of settings and see how you feel-go with your instincts!!

Firstly, I wouldnt mix carers too much either cm and gm or nursery and gm, if only for your own sanity but I tend to think children like and element of routine or knowing what is happening. Secondly, there are great nurseries, bad nurseries, great CM's, bad CM's. Ofsted rarely a 100% indicator, gut feeling is critical.

Having used both (CM and Nursery), I would definitely, definitely go the nursery route. They mix with children of all ages all the time, and have the benefit of the love and care of not only their key worker but other adults, with other styles and approaches at the nursery - I personally felt uncomfortable that you were relying on one person in sole charge that of my children - everyone has an off day and everyone has different skills to offer.

Also its a good idea to think about the long term - do you envisage DC going to nursery at 2.5? Will CM take them to and from? if not you may be better starting at a nursery rather than starting at one place only to move a year later (and may not get a place at full time day nursery)

Luckily this never happened to me, but I do know of a few people who found it difficult to raise issues with their CM because you are so reliant on that one person, that you just cant afford to piss them off. Obviously with a professional childminder (and the vast majority are!) this would not be an issue.

I've worked in a day nursery and now work as a childminder and without a doubt would say choose a registered CM.

Reason 1: Your little one will be spending the day in a normal family environment not in an artificial setting/institution.

Reason 2: When I worked in a nursery I worked there for 4 months whilst waiting for my police check to come through (CRB), in that time I was constantly given sole access to babies from 3 months up even though this is against the law. Believe it or not this is not an isolated incident and parents were assured that all workers were CRBd! CMs are not allowed to work until they are CRBd

Reason 3: Find a CM that you gel with and that is who will be working with you to care for your child for the next xxx years. In a nursery there is a good chance that the 'keyworker' will be changed randomly and regularly which will upset your child.

Reason 4: Most childminders will take your child out and about in the community, he will get to know the shopkeepers, the community police, visit the schools, playgroups and libraries and interact with the children he will later go to school with. In short he will have real life experiences with real people.

Reason 5: Your child will be one of three (or possibly four) under fives, not one of thirty so will receive much more one to one care and attention than in a nursery - with the same person encouraging the same standards of behaviour which have (usually) been discussed with mum beforehand. Even the best nurseries, like schools, have to offer a one-size-fits-all because it's simply not feasible to work to a parent's requirements in a large institution.

Reason 6: Pick the right CM and she (or he!) will become an important part of your life. Many CMs will work above and beyond the call of duty as long as parents don't take them for granted. Your CM will grow to love your child and care for it as if it was her own. Key-workers are often moved around IME meaning the child they care for then has to form new attachments to a new key worker which can become very disressing.

I loved working in the nursery and most children were very happy there so I don't want to disrespect the services they offer, I just feel that CMs can offer a more 'natural' experience for young children.

In reply to a previous post: Yes we do have 'off' days, we are human, just like nursery staff, lol! ;)

With regard to having four different carers, your child will possibly not settle in any of them making them fractious and upset. I'd go with just the three, either Mum Gran and nursery or Mum , Gran and CM

Good luck with whichever you choose x

great post once and completly agree.

Good luck OP, keep us posted on what you decide to do

I agree, great post. Interesting......before I started childminding I always thought I'd use a nursery if I had to. That's because I didn't realise how much Childminders did and what they had to do. And the thing that has put me off nurseries is that EVERY single person who I've met who has worked in a nursery has said they would never use one themselves. I'm not saying they are BAD, just that I've been put off by the fact all these people have pretty much said the same. But like with everything, there is good and bad so you need to meet them and see how you feel

I visited loads of nurseries both near home and work and cms near home and work. I chose a cm in the end. I didn't like the "institutional" setting... the fact that he would be napping in a room with up to 5 or 6 other babies/toddlers... just too long of a day to be in that sort of a setting as a baby/toddler (and he's only there 7.50-3.50).

If you really trust the cm you find and you find a good one, it will be fine. Yeah, they might have some days that they aren't as energetic as others, but that's what humans are like.

A professional cm would never be grumpy or allow his/her personal life to affect the care for their mindees.

I have also worked in a nursery setting when I was in university (part time) and kids definitely didn't get as much attention as they do with a cm.

i disagree with the level of attention that CM can give. I've been to plenty of mother and baby groups where the mindees are allowed to run amock ignored by their CM's whilst they enjoy their coffee. Sure, nurseries cost more, but thats because they tend to have higher ratios of staff so that children are cared for by the often very loving and dedicated carers.

OP, best thing to do is to talk to actual parents who use either CM or nursery and fidn out what their experiences are

HerHonesty A CM can only have 3 sometimes 4 under 5's at any one time. I think a nursery's ratio is 6-1.

With regards to toddler groups, I do tend to the let the mindees off on their own, as this is what toddler groups are for really. However I do keep a close eye and encourage them to do the craft, join in with singing etc.

That 1 1/2 hour at a group is only a snap-shot of the CM's day - she will have lots of time in the afternoons for 1-1 interaction.

Depends which nursery. mine is 3-1 up to 5 years, the actual legal limit is 3-1 between 0 and 2 and 4-1 between 2-5. For childminders ( i believe, correct me if i am wrong, of course) i think its up to six dc's all together, only 3 under 5 and 1 under 1.

It was infact the spread of age which made me reconsider childminding tbh.

Yeah you can have upto 6 under 8's, but this will ever only be the case before & after school and then holidays. So it would mostly be 3 under 5's, and yes only 1 under 1.

Your DC's end up attending school which is 'an institution'.

Nursery ratios are 1:3 under 2s, 1:4 2-3s and 1:8 3-5s (sometimes 1:13 in fact if the carer has a post-grad qualification.)

As a CM can only have 1 under 1, I'd say the ratio is better for babies as under 1s do need so much attention. In nursery baby rooms it'll often be three under 1s per carer and it can be tough to juggle them all (I say that as someone who works in a nursery).

I think that people who've commented like that are thinking more they don't want that environment for those younger years, that's how I've always read it anyway.

That's true Parrotcake - but when they're at school (and older ones at nursery) they tend to get a bit of a change of scene during the day, playing outside etc.

I think baby rooms are quite a limited environment for babies as they are generally inside in one room all day. I wouldn't choose it full time for a baby.

Missus84, re babies staying in the baby room all day, it depends on the nursery. At DS' nursery the babies go outside in the garden and sometimes for walks to the park, the nursery has a stack of double buggies and equipment for that age of baby.

Actually my experience suggets that nurseries have much better facilities inside and outside than at any CM. As a CM only ever has 1 under 1 they have no incentive to invest heavily in facilities for this age. brennannbooth DC also spends around 2 hours a day playing outside if good weather. I have a friend whose children at an outdoor nursery where they spend erm all day outdoors. novel.

At my last inspection, the inspector told me I was better equipped than most nurseries she'd seen.
Childminders who work together are allowed more than one under 1 and many of us use the equipment and toys our own children use(d), with the advantage that we actually know what is suitable and useful rather than simply buying the latest gimmick from the catalogues.

Tanith - I agree. You wouldn't believe the amount of baby stuff I have for when I have this age group. Some are even duplicated like 2 x activity tables so they have a variety plus it aids them when cruising as they have that little further to travel whilst playing. Parents have often commented on just how much stuff I have for this age group

I agree it all depends on parental preference for the younger years and whatever you're happiest with for your DC's. Babies only need so much stimulation and fresh air is still air whether its breathed from a window or outside in a park. I suppose my mum is sort of a CM in certain ways as she looks after my younger child 2 days in my institution (house)

It's what you want really. For me, I wasn't particularly fussed about dcs having access to more play equipment than they would at home, particularly as the CM did exactly what I would have done and took them took to well equipped toddler groups. I did care about the home setting and I did like it that they got taken out and about not just to parks and play places but to shops and just generally round the community. By the time mine started school they knew more people locally than I did. And she had them beautifully traffic trained.