DS 10months and will not sleep! Night Nannies Help Please!

[LittleMissPoppins]

Im posting on behalf of my exhausted MB.
DS has never slept all the way through the night.
He night routine:

• 7pm bed.

• 11pm - 1am awake.

• 1am - 3am sleep.

• 3am -5.30am awake.

• 5.30am - 7am sleep.

My poor MB is beside herself.
She lets him cry for 40minutes - but he literally screams his head off for solid hours! When she goes in he smiles and laughs so she leaves and he will scream for another hour.

They cant really afford a night nanny - so any help would be great!

Bump.

It really sounds like he needs some sleep training.

I would be looking at how long he sleeps in the day should be having a half hr nap in morning and an hr/hr half around lunchtime and if gets really grumpy in afternoon a quick 20-30min nap no later than 4pm.

At 5.30pm would offer solids as eve meal, 6pm give half a milk feed, bath him and then give other half of milk feed.

Normally by 10mths they shouldnt need any more feeds til 7am but would be inclined to give a dream feed at 10.30pm for time being to help sleep through.

leave a bottle of water in bottom corner of cot as he moves around so is able to reach it if thirsty.

when he wakes tell MB not to go in straight away but if he is screaming go in and lay him back down dont speak to him (if need be pop mobile music on to soothe), she will need to repeat this every 10mins.

Make sure he is having enough food and milk during the day as well so that he is not hungry.

Make sure he is warm/cool enough, room is dark and he is not teething hence waking in pain.

That advice was great.

He has 30minutes nap in the morning.

2hours at lunch 12.30pm to 2.30pm.

and no more sleep after that.

he has his dinner with me at 5pm.

he doesnt hold his bottle himself yet and when she offers him milk he doesnt want it he just wants to be held.

he cries for 40minutes solid and when she goes in he just laughs ( almost like he knows she is going to come).

He is teething but he has been waking up like this before teething.

thanks

What does MB stand for?

Some things that have helped my baby sleep a bit better (I hope! Could be temporary blip):

Making sure the room is really dark.

Tightening up a bit on daytime routine and making sure that she naps during the day. Really agree with emnn on that one. I think overtiredness is often a key cause of non sleeping babiex. My baby is younger (7 months) and takes 2 naps, 1 at around 9 and the other after lunch at about 12.30. She seems to need at least 1.5 hours at each nap in order to sleep well at night. I then aim for bedtime at around 7 but we often put her down a bit earlier if she's grizzly.

MB = Mother Boss.

I will suggest all these things.

Thanks

op you said, "just laughs ( almost like he knows she is going to come).". I think the main problem parents face with sleep is that everything is a battle. I am pro cry it out but it doesn't work for all children.

The little boy is crying because he wants to see his mum he's not doing it to be vindictive. If she is leaving him for 40 minutes crying then I assume he is going to need a lot of time to calm down before he nods off again, hence the 2 hour gap. I think the cry it out method recommends returning regularly I think it's something like, leave for 2 minutes return, leave for 2 minutes return, leave for 5 return, leave for 10 return, leave for 20 max return every 20 until they sleep.

I personally would try returning to the room more regularly.

10 months is still quite young and not all children will sleep through no matter how much sleep training they have. It sounds like he has issues self soothing/settling, does he have a dummy/comfort toy?

He has never had a dummy or a comfort toy.

He sleeps fine for me during the day.

I hope he grows out of it because MB is distraught.

I think NavyeyelasH makes a very good point, actually. He might settle better and more quickly if she goes into him as soon as she is sure that he's not just stirring in his sleep rather than leaving him to get very upset and overwrought. One thing that worked for me a few weeks back (before my daughter seemed ready to go to sleep without me there) was sitting beside the cot stroking her head until she fell asleep. She would thrash about a lot and grin and gurgle but then suddenly go "zherdonk snooooooooore".

"He sleeps fine for me during the day."

How often do you have him? I am a nanny (actually was, I just switch to a CMer) not a mum and I'm sure when I have my own I will go to whatever lengths necessary to get some kip so I'm not being judgy (although my last post sounds it, I was in a rush!). I bet in time I will eat my own words, but still...

The problem is children behave much better for nannies and other care providers because they aren't as securely attached to them as they are to parents - he doesn't need to "test" you. He is just checking his mum loves him he probably misses her during the day and things the evening is 'party time!'. I think you should make it clear to the mum he isn't playing her up, I think he just loves her and wants to be with her. Obviously he can't have what he wants but I think if she could see the lack of sleep from that perceptive rather than him being a little bugger then it might not feel so soul destroying?

I would not stroke him/pat him/rock him/sit with him as he is capable of getting off to sleep fine (demonstrated by him sleeping for you, and I think he goes down for him mum initially?). I think the issue is that he wants to see his mum and the only way to do that is scream blue murder.

I would try going in faster to settle him with no talking/eye contact and then build the time up in between going in. A night light might also work.

The thing with children is they are pesky little things and this might not work either! I read a thread on mumsnet where someone used a rolling pin inside one leg of tights stuffed with loads of socks around the rolling pin as a prosthetic arm!

I have him 4 days a week for 10 hours a day.

Its just the fact he wakes up for so long that worries her, she thinks he has got his day and night mixed up because he would sleep all day with me if he could.

I really hope he gives her a break over Easter .

He goes down okay for her in the daytime and even at 7pm he goes down fine.

She is hoping when he starts walking ( which he is close too) he will be exhausted.

Maybe introducing a dummy could help..

thanks again x

At that age it sounds like he could well be overtired if waking up to 'play' - as seeing the 1st few hours in cot as a 'nap', so maybe see if napping later/longer would help?

I can recommend the 'No cry sleep solution' book (on amazon).

I very much doubt that introducing a dummy will work - it is at this age you should be taking one away, or at the very least restricting it, and he will 99% not take one as he's not used to it.

What a previous poster said who is pro-cry-it-out about leaving for 2, 5, 10 minutes successively - that is not cry it out, that is controlled crying which I think is a very successful method.

Cry it out would be nearly what your MB is doing - leaving for prolonged periods.

I highly recommend Dr Ferber's book - Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems or something along that effect, it explains the whole circadian rhythms/sleep cycles that children go through, and explains that if you do want to follow a programme of controlled crying why it works and how to set one up, and more importantly explains what this is like from the child's perspective. It's not cruel or unusual punishment at all, it's teaching the child to self-soothe.

If she can't do that all in herself (too tired, doesn't want him to cry, etc.) I would say she should shell out for a night nanny for 7 days which should nip this completely in the bud. Good luck to your MB.

glad the advice helps - persevance is certainly the key with this one!

Starberries - sorry that was me I just meant that I'm pro leaving to children to cry if needs be.

Who coined Cry it out do you know, was it Spock? I would imagine that leaving a child for 40 minutes with no effect would mean the approach isn't working? I find most habits are broken with 3-4 days if you're consistent; not easy when you're on your knees I appreciate that.

OP do you think you could offer to help your MB?

Controlled crying worked for DD who was just as bad if not worse than this at sleeping, she was incapable of going to sleep on her own or of staying asleep. She got me up multiple times every night for 15 months until I finally said that enough was enough and did controlled crying. Until then I had done cuddling back to sleep, stroking back to sleep, patting back to sleep, playing, trying to feed her, water her, slowly leaving the room, reading to her - everything basically and none of it worked.

What DID work was sticking at controlled crying. I left her for 1 minute where she'd scream, then I'd go in lie her back down stroke her back and leave (takes no longer than 30 secs) then I'd leave her for 2 minutes, repeat, then 3 minutes, repeat. For the first month I left her no longer than 3 minutes on her own and I just went back and back and back until she fell asleep. The second month I increased it to 4 minutes and 5 minutes, if she got to being left for 5 minutes I'd just keep going at 5 minutes until she fell asleep. It took about 3 months because my fiance was incapable of leaving her crying so we weren't completely consistent but it DID work and she now sleeps through the night and if she does wake up then she puts herself back to sleep and I don't bother getting up.

Believe me it's hard although I think if MB can leave him for 40mins crying then she'll have no problem. I think the baby needs to know she'll come, but ultimately she isn't going to stay - he'll get bored in the end.

HTH.

Hello there, it is terrible when your going through it isn't it?
At "A Good Night's Sleep" we are midwives and maternity nurses who specialise in dealing with sleeping issues. Give us a call and we can definately help. Please check out our website at www.agoodnightssleep.org

Elaine: 07812769527
Sonia: 07825 279094

Look forward to hearing from you.

I don't think leaving for 40 mins, and then going in will work. It just teaches that eventually they will get attention, no matter how long they cry for, so will never give up! And is awful for the parents as well.

Controlled crying has worked for us and lots of friends. Leave for 5 mins initially (to make sure not just stirring in their sleep), then go in, calm down however (but no chatting or playing obv.!), and once calmish then put back in cot, upon which they will start yelling again. Tuck up with firm night night and leave. Thereafter increase the time left crying by 2 mins each time. VERY IMPORTANT to time these periods, as it is the gradually increasing time that teaches them that the crying isn't going to be worth it. i.e. next time would be 7 mins, then go in and calm down and back in bed, then 9 mins etc. Should work within a few days, but like all things you need to be consistent.

Its outlined more fully in the Toddler Taming book.

If the parents don't think they can do that, then shelling out for a nanny to do it for them might be worthwhile - although they will still have to use the same methods on any subsequent wake ups.