What are affordable childcare options for 2 siblings? (and limited budget)

[toja555]

So here is the story. I am pregnant with DC2. DS will be 2.5 years when DC2 will be born. I am looking forward to go back to work when the baby will be 6-9 months.
But.. here is the dreadful question of affordability? our family income is 3k net, our bills mortgage food are 1.8k, so we will have max 1.2k to spend for both DC childcare if we want to keep our jobs. Currently I pay £820 for only DS. We are in South London.
We might get some little tax credits and use childcare vouchers, but no matter how I am calculating it seems that we will be short.

Instead of being happy about the pregnancy, I am just dreading how we will survive and thinking ?what have we done??. That is so not right. Anyone in similar position?

P.S. I was not sure if this thread is OK to post but couldn't find anything more suitable.

have you factored in the possibility that the hourly rate in nurseries goes down once they reach 2 and then again at 3. This is because the ratio changes from 1-3 for under 2s to 1-4 for 2 year olds and then 1-8 for over 3s. In addition once your ds is 3 he will get 12.5 hours "free" during term time. Thus although it might be a squeeze for the first few months once your ds turns three it will become much easier.

Think nanny-share? Could be a possibility.

If you paid, I dunno, £22K gross (are you working full-time?) which equates to around £17K net (very rough figures here, i'm sure there'll be loads of posters to say I'm way out!) then if the nanny was up for it you could take somebody else's child as well to cover the shortfall.

Many nannies are OFsted registered or can easily become so, so that they can take childcare vouchers.

Nanny care is expensive as the children are at home all day (heating, food) and the expectation is that you will provide cash for general outings, entertainments etc, although you can agree in advance what this will be.

The tax bill also falls quarterly so it always seems enormous - also there is one last tax bill after the nanny has left which is harsh!

But you have the wonderfulness of not having to get your children out of the door in the morning... and my wonderful, wonderful nanny used to MAKE DINNER so that I came home to a hot meal (she only had one child to look after though so I don't think it was slavery!)

we have just been through this too. Points to consider:

a) by the time you go back to work, dc1 will be 3yo and get 12.5h a week free

b) if you send dc2 to the same nursery you'll get a sibling discount

c) both you and dh can get childcare vouchers from your employers

d) if your nursery is amenable and you can face it, you could take dc1 out for the duration of your matleave and save 6m fees

e) what will happen 2y down the line when dc1 starts school?
Will you be shelling out the same (or more) as nursery for pre-prep, or will he go state and hence your outgoings go down? If you're still both working ft he'll need breakfast and afterschool clubs (which cost) and/or a childminder, but if you (eg) start a nannyshare now she'll be able to do the wraparound care bit.

It's worth having a longterm plan as well as a 'how do we get through the next 12m' plan

Thank you to everyone. It is comforting to know that I am not alone in the boat.

Witch with the trimmings, I know that nursery charges are less as the child grows but we are still looking at least £670 per month (£155 a week). Another problem is, that the good nurseries have waiting lists and I think it is close to impossible to get both children into the same nursery. I have been on waiting list with DS1 for almost a year and the place has not come up.

Nanny share could be an option, but I still find it costly ? nannies are around £9-10, with the share I might end up paying £6/hour = £1300/month plus as chossyflossy mentioned bills up + food usage + entertainment costs..

Mrs Badger, answering to your questions,
a) Because the way system works my DS1 will get 12.5 free hours only when he will be 3years 5 months (he is born in April and will start getting in September), that is a bit unfair but will have to deal with it. One question, do we still get those 12.5 free hours if the child is with childminder? In the form of compensation from government or so?

b) Hopefully although I have not heard of it.

c) Hopefully, although one of us pays all the bills and leaves with too little money in account to qualify for childcare vouchers.

d) At the moment DS is with an excellent childminder which we probably will have to leave (me sobbing here). I could afford keeping him part-time while on maternity leave, but it is not likely that I can afford him going to the same CM after I return to work FT and having a separate chidcare for DC2 (no siblings discounts), although I would love it.

e) I don?t know, I have no idea about our long-term plan, I just know that we are aiming for a state school and the cheapest childcare options?

Mrs Badger, may I ask how are you coping and what have you chosen as your childcare?

as I recall, qualifying for vouchers isn;t about money left in account, it's about gross salary. Worth investigating as you could double your savings.

Don't know if childminders can provide the free 12.5h though.

We worked it thus:
DD is at nursery, which I pay by salary sacrifice through my employer and hence get a hefty tax break on.
She will be 3 when I go back - she's an August birthday so luckily will get her 12.5h immediately.
I put DS down on the nursery waiting list at the 12wks scan [shame] but he is pretty certain to get a place and hence a whopping 15% sibling discount.
However, dd's summer birthday means that she will start school when only just 4 so there will onyl be a year when they are both at nursery.
Once she starts reception ds will stay at nursery and I will cut my hours so I can at least pick dd up at 3pm. This will obv cut my salary but it still won't be as bad as working ft and paying two sets of nursery fees.
This has been a longterm plan so we have been saving for some time to cover the shortfall in the year when they are both at nursery, so it's going to be tight but not impossible.

Took us ages to work it out...

you will get 15 hours pw from September and you should be able to get the grant for use with an approved childminder

have you looked at the way the employers childcare vouchers work? because 25% (or 40%) is a very good saving! you might have to shift around the way you pay bills etc but it would be worth it.

could you consider one or other of you working compressed hours (5 days over 4) and save a day pw childcare costs?

Wow? I am impressed, Mrs Badger.

I have been trying to work it out since I found out about pregnancy..

Is your DD in nursery while you on maternity leave?
And another question, you can?t be sure that you will get a place in a nursery exactly when you returning to work, will you? My 2 yo DS has been on waiting list but we will never now when the place will come up (might come up when I am on maternity leave)... hence it is difficult to plan. But thank you anyway for sharing your experiences.

childminders can provice free 12.5 hours if they are qualified to level 3! h

Mazzystartled, I will look into option how to get that grant for 15 hours. Thanks. Re childcare vouchers, my DH has just registered for it, but I need to work it out as well (for the 2nd DC).
Compressed hours are completely out of the question, as mine and DH?s employers are both inflexible.

all 3+s will get 15 hours automatically from Sept

(unless the election changes all that, natch)

if you both do the childcare vouchers it will save you £100 min pcm. can be a pita to set up but it's a worthwhile saving.

good luck!

yes dd still goes to nursery, though on shorter days and not every day - she loves it, and while ds is so small it's better than stickimg cbeebies on while I am constantly feeding etc
also means I can do stuff with ds (baby massage, bf support) that I couldn't with dd in tow.

nursery place - because of the way mine works there are frequently places free in the baby room as the children grow up and go up to 1-2s, so getting a place for a 6-9mo is way easier than trying to get an older one into an established cohort, iyswim.
When you join the waiting list you specify age and desired start date, so although there may be hundreds of 3yo who joined the list before us, if the preschool room is full and there's a space in babies, we'll go ahead of them.

Keep in mind that if you get a nanny (in a nanny share for instance) that is Ofsted Registered, you can pay them with childcare vouchers - so they may help with costs!

Whereabouts do you live? You may be able to find a nanny willing to do a nanny share for less money (especially as they would only have your older DC full time for 1 yr). And, as long as you find a similarly thinking family, you could basically tell the nanny you only wanted them to attend free/very cheap groups (such as toddler groups which cost 1 pound or similar) which would save on activity costs. Also keep in mind that if you share house use in the share (so one week your house, one week theirs) then you wouldnt have as much wear and tear on your house either!

Just something to keep in mind!

I would say that for two children, the lowest cost childcare in my view is likely to be a childminder. In my area (Berkshire/Surrey border) a childminder for 2 children would be £9-£10 per hour (£4.50-£5 per child). A live-out nanny would be a higher cost, probably a good 20% higher due to adding in cost of Employers NI, additional heating the home, mileage payments etc.

An advantage of using a childminder would be that once children start school, they can remain with the same childcarer - presuming your childminder is local to you and is able to collect from the school your eldest children is then attending. It's a consistency of carer factor... children can be with a childminder for many years, from babies through to pre-teen.

A nanny is a more expensive option, though comes with some advantages - such as not having to get the children fed, dressed and out of the house each morning.

We're in South London and have recently started a nannyshare with some friends. We have a 5-year-old (so nanny does school run/walk) and 9-month-old, friends have a 3-year-old (pre-school during the mornings) and a 13-month-old.

Our nanny cares for the children 3 days a week, term-time only and the cost is significantly lower than using a combination of nurseries/after-school clubs/childminders. Obviously term-time only won't work for everyone though! The nanny goes everywhere by foot as she doesn't drive and we're more than happy to have the children enjoy the facilities available locally or by public transport. She hasn't taken them to any groups yet as chickenpox has been rife within the nannyshare over the past 8 weeks but we've asked that anything be cheap and sheery playgroups rather than the class-type activity that requires a termly commitment.

Depending on whereabouts in South London you are it may be worth exploring different nursery options. For DD1 we used the Quaggy children's centre which was marvellous and bargainous (we paid about £13 per day less than friends that used other local nurseries!).

What about a nanny with her own child that she brings along? Would generally get paid less than one who doesn't?

Yes JP a nanny with own child generally gets paid less but rate of discount available varies, I'm told here, depending on the nanny.

Hi toja, we've been through a similar thought process. Here are some ideas we've got:

• DH & I both trying to progress careers to earn more
• mortgage holiday once I am back at work
• switching to interest-only mortgage
• remortgage or otherwise incur debt for the next few years to pay for childcare
• stop pension contributions for the next few years
• child benefit increases for DC2
• if you can stay on mat leave until DC2 is 1 then if you use a nursery the fees are usually lower than in the "baby room" and DS will be cheaper than he was anyway from the term after he turns 3 so check your timing carefully
• some nurseries are cheaper than others and sibling discounts vary so shop around
• no holidays, supermarket basic range pasta etc.

• nanny share with another family?

Do you work full time? If you are PT, you could do a child swap with another working family so that you wuold look after your DC and another family's children on your non-working days...

Hayleycm Tue 16-Mar-10 12:09:12
childminders can provice free 12.5 hours if they are qualified to level 3! h

sorry to correct you but not all childminders can provide the free entitlement - they have to be an accredited - meaning they are on an approved CCF network.

all childminder regardless of network or qualification should be working to exactly the same as other settings now under the EYFS.

Oh gosh.. what prospect I have put myself into? (usually on MN everyone is filled in with joy about DC1 DC2 or DC3, but nobody talks about how to survive the battle!). I am very grateful everyone who bothered to answer my thread.

While reading your advice, I am coming to the idea that I will have to register with all available good nurseries whilst still pregnant and then later to take my chance on finding a reasonably priced nanny share. And saving saving saving, before I go to mat leave and afterwards. I hope we will survive? we don?t have another option, do we? :/

you could get a live-in nanny who are paid per week and not per hour. if they are ofsted registered you can use vouchers

Do look into childcare vouchers. DP and I both claim the full amount each month (£243 each) and this is paid directly to the childminder. Standing order pays the shortfall of £260 ish!

You can claim the vouchers as long as you earn enough to still pay basic NI I think. Do check if claiming them will affect pension payments though. You can claim up to £55 a week regardless of the number of children - we claim the full amount now but we claimed the full amount when we only had 1DC too! Also look into whether your employer will still pay the vouchers whilst you are on maternity leave - mine did so DD1 still went to CM whilst I was on ML.

We have 2DC with an age gap of 2.3yo.

DD1 is now 3.6 yo and does 2 full days at pre-school.

DD2 is now 15 mo and is with the childminder 4 days a week. The childminder also has DD1 when not in pre-school - apart from the one day we are lucky enough to have them go to my mum!

Grandma helping out makes a huge difference and is arranged so that is the longest day as I have meetings into the evening on that day.

I also went PT this year so I finish at lunchtime on Tuesdays and Thursdays so I can collect girls early, although one of these days is a pre-school day.

TBH we really should look into child tax credits as, taking these two afternoons off a week may actually have brought our household income to just under the limit - and even £10 extra a week would be useful!

My other advantage is that I am a teacher so only pay full fees with the CM during term time and a 50% retainer for all holidays - but as she takes all of her own holidays during school holidays then I actually get those 5 weeks free and don't have to organise alternative child care.

OTOH DP has to take all time off in term time if CM is ill and has to close - luckily very rare as he commutes so we need to know very early for him not to go into work.

Finally - having 2DC is wonderful - hard work and expensive yes, but increasingly wonderful as they get older (and cheaper??!!) Do try to enjoy the pregnancy despite the practical problems to come.

livefortoday, we cannot get live in nanny as we don?t have space for it (we have 2 bedrooms). Otherwise I would love it.

Dysgu, what a nice arrangement you made! And I loved your last sentence ? that having 2 DC is wonderful ? because when trying to sort out all practicalities, I do forget why we wanted 2 DC at the first place? (silly, I know). Maybe it ads up because we are in London and things like childcare are more expensive here ? hopefully we can move to a small town some time in the future?

As regards childcare vouchers, my DH already applied for, but I am not sure about myself ? my mat leave 6 weeks 90% salary will be counted from my pregnancy 17-25 weeks salary, and I am receiving childcare vouchers, this would reduce that pay.

Thank you everyone once again. My heart is not at peace yet but somehow we will manage?