CM Club - dealing with non payment - do I give notice?

[Booh]

I may sound a bit loopy but I am so so sick of being messed around by parents who dont pay.

There is one family, I have only worked for them for 6 months yet EVERY month is late, or I get two months at once.

At the moment I am still waiting for March money (they pay in advance) but I doubt they will pay it as they only gave me Feb's money 15days ago.

I have charged late fees, but it just makes their debt worse.

Do I give notice? I adore my job, but I can't keep stressing over not being paid (and the bank shouting at me!!!)

i would.
or, i would maybe give them one warning letter saying that if they are late with any more payments you will have to terminate the contract.
then if they're late again just do it

Like thisisyesterday said, or just 'I can't have your child until you have paid for their care, otherwise your contract is void and they are uninsured'? (but then they might say if the contract is void, they don't have to give you notice .....)

Could you insist that they set up a direct debit to pay you, if you are going to issue a warning letter anyway?

HSMM - I cant refuse care, as I will breech the contract, and they can use temp care and I will be liable for the cost. That really cheered me up when the NCMA legal team told me!

They cancelled the direct debit we set that up when we did the contract

Sorry to just chuck back all your help

What does your policy state?
You could go two routes here - a newsletter thanking everyone who pays in a timely fashion or just a quick reminder PLEASE NOTE (type of thing) that under your policy fees are due xxxdate and you would appreciate that they are paid in a timely fashion. Failure to do so will incur your late payment charges (if you have them). Late payment is unacceptable as it leaves you unable to pay bills/buy resources etc.

And/or - sit this family down and explain to them what an inconvience it is and ask if they would like to set up a standing order or alternative payment options.
Again reiterate your late payment charges and give them a copy of your fees policy. I wold be telling them that they are in breach of contract by failing to pay you on time and you will have no option but to consider terminating the contract.

If you can afford to lose them or would prefer the lack of stress immediately, that is accompanying them, serve your normal notice.

I write a clause into all contracts that if payment is not made on time then care can be withdrawn immediatly.

No help now but worth mentioning in the future!

Give 4 weeks notice and then go off sick for those 4 weeks?? Bear in mind they will probably not give you the money they owe you for this month if you do this though.

Good old NCMA. Legal stuff is silly, when they have breached the contract by not paying already! (assuming your contract is clear on when payment is due)

I think NCMA now take the stance of refusing care is ok as they have already breeched by non payment?

you CAN refuse care.. my husband is a contracts lawyer and gets furious at the NCMA as advice is wrong.. THEY have breached the contract FIRST by not paying you and you have the right to refuse care in the expectation that you wont be paid for your services. in effect they are voiding the contract.. why the NCMA spout this crap I cant imagine.. it is WRONG.

I think that the parents may just be taking advantage of you, pehaps you are the type to steam up inside but havn't actually showed tham how much this is pissing you off!!

write to them, and verbally advise, that you will terminate the contract unless payment is as per agreed by your contract and then stick to it.

been there myself and its horrible but develop a thick skin and just bloody well go for it.. best of luck.

I agree with thebody they have breached the contract, therefore you owe then diidly squat. Why NCMA say this crap is beyond me.

Why should you work without getting paid, do they go to the supermarket and ask the person at the till if they can pay in a couple of weeks, this makes me so mad

I put T&C's on the back of all my invoices which clearly states if payment is more than 14dys late then care will be terminated without notice. Have done this once and have no regrets whatsoever.

I also agree with the poster who said that your insurance may not be valid, they have breached their contract with you therefore if anything were to go wrong would it be likely that the insurance co might have a get out of paying up clause due to the breach? Perhaps thebodys DH might be able to clarify - cheeky

Unfortunately in English contract law, two wrongs do not make a right. Just because one party breaches a term of the contract, that does not give the other party the right to breach another term. Neither does it 'void' the contract.

So what can you do if someone breaches a contract? Well as pippin says, if you write something like this in the contract...

"In the event that payment for the services is not received within 14 days of the due date for that payment the childminder reserves the right to withdraw the services with 24 hours notice until the payment is made. The parents shall continue to be liabile for payment for the services during the period of withdrawal."

... you can do exactly that.

You can of course give them notice, but unless you have something similar to the above in the contract, or a termination clause written like...

"Either party may terminate the contract by giving notice of not less than one month, but in the event that any payment for the services is not made within 14 days of the due date for that payment the childminder may terminate the contract without notice."

... you will have to continue to provide the services while the debt mounts up during the notice period.

So is thebody's husband completely wrong, or just misquoted?

Well, if you decide to withdraw your services without having a term in the contract which allows you to, that is a breach. The parents may sue you for their losses caused by your breach, for example the cost of temporary child care. Now if you can show that, acting reasonably, you did not believe that you would ever be paid for the services, you have a defence against that claim.

So in general, you might be able to get away with it. But in this case it is going to be very difficult to show that it was reasonable to believe that: they have always paid you before, just late.

Secondly, if one party's breach of a contract is fundamental, it may be a 'repudiatory breach'. This is not the place for a full discussion of this concept, but
basically it does not apply here because again the parents have been paying you so you are not being deprived of essentially all of your benefit from the contract.

lol ATWORKNOTWORKING Yep have asked him and he thinks that a good case could be made that way.. any breach of the contractural arrangements, i.e their non payments could be seen as voiding the agreement and so could void insurance..

mind u as all lawyers he is full of shit but its all open to interpretation..

also as a self employed person you can include in your contract what the hell clauses you like on non payment.. just be mindful that NCMA insurance cover only works if you use their contracts (I THINK THATS CORRECT) but lots of insurance companies cover cms. NCMA doesnt have a monopoly.

Thank you Mrthebody & Mrsthebody mranchovy have read your comments, thank you, very interesting as well, I will read again when I have some time to think about all the bits you note.

But I still reckon if I don't get paid it's tuff pants and IMO I am being deprived of some of the benefit of the contract, which is why I did the 14day thing in my T&C's.

Sir the law is an ASS

Yes atworknotworking, what you have done is exactly what I suggest - you have given yourself a right in the contract to terminate immediately if payment is not made on time.

What I am saying is that, contrary to popular belief, that right does not automatically exist. Sorry I took a bit long saying it .

the law is an ass BUT is always open to interpretation.. we are talking the small claims court here though not mills v mc cartney so lets get a grip!!!

I can accept that dh can be wrong in most things but have to say that he deals with contract law every day of the week for the last 30 years and there is no such thing as right and wrong mranchovy .. lots of wriggle room.

I have terminated with no notice on non payment, I dont do working for nothing.. if she lets them get away with this then the bills will mount up

thebody I have lots of wriggle room in my T&C's

MM contracts have a pre-written clause saying that care may be withdrawn on non-payment.