Dealing with sick leave - WwYD

[loueytbg]

This is a bit complicated, so bear with me...

Nanny has had a lot of time off sick - she seems to come down with everything going, swine flu, all vomiting bugs etc. We have been very accommodating - although I had to take some time off unpaid to cover when it just got too difficult to take holiday etc. We have not docked her pay.

She has been on a waiting list for an op on her foot and got a call today to say she has a date for it. She will be out of action for 8 weeks, meaning we will have to get a temp nanny or try and find a childminder to cover the period. I don't think it has even crossed her mind that we can't afford to pay her and a temp and that we are going to have to put her on SSP.

The complication is that I'm PG and she doesn't yet know. She will be out of a job by the end of September because we can't afford to pay her whilst I am on maternity leave.

I don't really know how to handle all this. I know I can't say she can't have the op but given she will be out of a job in September I'm wondering if there is any way to suggest she might want to try and postpone it until then? DH wants to get rid of her when she goes off for the op and just get someone to cover until I am on maternity leave.

Any advice welcomed - I am probably going to tell her about the PG tomorrow and I'm not looking forward to it. I hate difficult situations....

No, it's not right that there is nothing the employer can do: the employer can dismiss them, however the employee may bring a case for unfair dismissal.

But there are no fixed rules or time limits that the employer can rely on to show that the dismissal was not unfair. Whether the case succeeds depends on all the relevant facts, but above all the employer will have to show that they have acted fairly and in accordance with their published policies.

Update:

Had to tell her over the phone on Friday night as she sent me a text asking for her expenses to be paid as she was going to book a holiday the next day. I couldn't let her do that knowing that she was going to be out of a job by the end of the summer.

She was upset - but took it quite well considering. She kept asking whether I was going back to work after my maternity leave - angling to come back I think. I didn't say that we didn't want her back anyway...

She had realised that she was going to be on SSP so at least that didn't come as a shock. Her immediate reaction was to say that she would probably cancel the op. I have sent her an email over the weekend setting our her options (without pushing her towards any one of them) and said she needs to decide what to do.

Was dreading this morning but she is acting normal (still arrived late!) and hasn't mentioned it all. She has just sent me a text asking for a written reference for agencies so she is obviously looking for a new job. I have said she can take her time making a decision but at some point I will have to start putting pressure on her, not least because I may need to find childcare for 2 children by the end of May...

Having read another thread on here about a nanny not pulling her weight - I've realised how little she actually does with my two. No homemade mothers day card for me

Good to hear an update. I always like it when the OP posts how the situation has been resolved.

"she is acting normal (still arrived late!)"
Well, you did say she is acting normal - so arriving late is normal

I think you have 2 separate issues and you don't have to put them together.

Is this redundancy thing new? I had to leave 2 nanny jobs because the family were moving away/mum gave up work and I never got redundancy. Never expected it or thought of it tbh.

No the redundancy pay thing is not new.

Depends how old really I guess as it has been a long time since. Not relevant now as it isn't like I could do anything about it and I did get notice as per my contract.

thanks for the update

still cant beleive she arrives late, but guess if you dont tell her she doesnt know - saying that if contract start time says 8am, i expect the nanny to be there at 8am

have you given the nanny a time limit to decide whether to go may/get paid for 1/2 time off due to holiday or to keep her to sept and she have op after then

maybe say to her you need her decison within the week, as sure she needs to let hospital know whether she is taking the appointment

She often arrives 5-10 mins late - she did apologise so she is aware of the time she is supposed to be there. I've given up tbh. Clearly I should have put my foot
down about lots of things earlier. I will give her a week to make a decision and I'm going to mention it tonight (on way home at the mo)

Good luck

This is turning into a nightmare

She has decided to have the operation at the end of May which is the right decision I think. However, she wants to come back for a month before I make her redundant at the end of August. This is the worst possible outcome for us as we will have to find childcare for 8 weeks, then have her back for a month and then find a childminder to start looking after the DTs in September. Its a lot of upheaval for them in a short space of time to be shortly followed by a new sibling. I now wish we hadn't given her that option.

Her reasoning is that (apparently) she will get slightly more money on SSP than on incapacity benefit (which is what she will have to be on if we make her redundant then because she can't look for work while she is recovering from the op). Also she is concerned about having a gap of 2 months on her CV if she leaves at the end of May.

She has basically said that she doesn't want any prospective employer to know that she has recently had an op. I said they may ask her about sick leave and she said that she was prepared to lie if necessary.

That puts us in a difficult position as obviously we can't lie if we are asked this question.

DH thinks we should make her redundant at the end of May regardless but now I've sent her an email setting out the option she has chosen, I'm not sure we can.

Its such a mess!!!

Nightmare. Could you say that coming back isn't an option as you need childcare therefore making her redundant

obv check this out with lawyers/cab etc

she said she will lie if asked? Why? She needs an op and would have it,so why lie?

obv you can't/shouldn't lie and sure she won't get jobs if she says one thing and you say another

Could you find a childminder who wouldn't mind not having your children during August?

I think you can give notice sooner than you have currently outlined. After all, you are only letting her know your intentions at this stage and presenting some possibilities. For all you know you could be made redundant yourself tomorrow and thus have to give her notice tomorrow!
All the notice she is entitled to is what is written in the contract, presuming it's terms are better than statutory minimum (two weeks if there for 2 years, 3 weeks if employed for 3 years). Worth posting over on Employment Issues and Legal Matters boards to see if you can get some advice.

As you will be used for a reference, you can't lie if you are asked about how much time she has had off. I don't feel you can say that she has had time off for a particular operation (going into detail about what the operation was) but you can say that she took x number of weeks off to have medical treatment (just not be specific about what exact treatment).

Blondes - she says that no-one will employ her if they find out she has recently had an operation.

DH and I are going to talk to our HR depts at work and see if we can get some (free) advice

They would probably be reluctant to employ her if they ask you how often she is late for work! She doesn't seem bothered about that though.

If the operation fixes something that means she is able to work better... then surely employers won't see the time off for the operation being a bad thing, as it's not likely to need a repeat operation.

The arriving late for work is far more likely to put employers off in my view.

Ditto what nick said

Nanny watch - she arrived on time this morning

Have posted on employment board at your v helpful suggestions.

Would be interested in your views about whether an employer would be put off employing a nanny who had a recent operation? I agree, it should make her more active (although she is by nature quite lazy I think).

She is very good with babies but it has been since my two were 2ish that we have noticed the general laziness and lack of motivation to try new things. Too late to do anything about it now and we have learnt our lesson...

Have posted message on local boards re childminders. FX that we can find one.

on time - well i never

maybe she is on here

I hope not

Well if she is then she will know our views and hopefully leave in may