Late fees for nursery au pair/nanny

[HarrietTheSpy]

We are charged a £1 per minute late fee if DC2 is not collected on time from nursery.

If au pair didn't collect on time what would you say it is reasonable to do? Deduct some or part of the fee from the pay? Do nothing the first time, then something thereafter?

She is not tied up with any duties for us in the hours prior to collecting DC. FYI.

Depends why she was late really.

If she was held up because of traffic or a doctor's appointment that ran late or she was with a friend and didn't realise the time, I would explain the importance to her of leaving earlier/not making appointments close to pick up time/keeping an eye on the time and that she should always aim to arrive 5 mins early - tell her about the late fees as she may not realise how much it can all add up. It's her responsibility to get there at the right time so she should really bear the cost - though not this time, in future after you've had a chat with her about it.

If it was something unavoidable like the car not starting, the bus was late or there was an accident on the roads that delayed the traffic then I would say that you should pick up the bill.

The au pair knows we are charged, as this is explained at the outset very clearly. Would never expect them to pay if we hadn't laid that out.

However - it is not in her contract.

In the future is this something I should consider, I wonder. And how to phrase.

Our nursery also do late fees (after 15 minutes) and if I as a nanny caused thse fees I would pay unless it was out of my hands.

I would word it as

The nursery (child) attends charges apenalty fee of __ per minute for every minute they stay over their arrnaged session. If you are going to be late for picking (child) up then please call us/the nursery to let us know of the situation. We will pay a maximum of 3 late fees during your period with us with the aupair forfeiting her wages/the costs unless the circumstances are out of your control; emergency at the house/aupair is ill etc.

It depends on the wording of your original cntract and whether you can insert something to the effect of what Lifeinagoldfishbowl says. It may just be something you have to suck up this time but be very clear on next time. One time is fair enough to pay, after that it's the responsibility of the AP.

I would deduct all of the fee - it's a lesson in time management! With the exception of emergencies of course...

The thing that the AP needs to appreciate is that part of the job is turning up on time - those are her specified working hours and AP isn't doing the job then they should be penalised.

Is this a non-event, or has the situation actually occurred?

Is a deduction from salary permitted in this sort of case?

If this was a teenager daughter/son of your's, what consequence would they get? Maybe additional chores, free babysitting.

As already mentioned, it will depend on a case by case basis as to the circumstances involved. However I would say that it shouldn't really ever happen, so some kind of payback as it were is quite reasonable in the event that it does happen due to fault of the au-pair/nanny.

Legally can you deduct wages for something that isn't in the contract?

a £1 per minute

wonder if us nannies can charge that
i would love £60ph overtime when trains running late

pay this time, even though in contract but make clear ap pays next time

how late was she and why?

Summary of the law:

There are three specific situations where lawful deductions may be made. These are:

(1) where the law requires deductions to be made, e.g. income tax, National Insurance contributions, attachment of earnings orders, student loan deductions,

(2) where your employment contract makes specific provision for a deduction, and

(3) where you and your employer have agreed in writing to the deduction before the situation arises that would require the deduction to be made.

(1) is obvious and doesn't apply here, and (3) is essentially the same as (2) in that the agreement in (3) is effectively an addition to the contract.

So it would not be lawful to deduct if it has already happened. What you can do is sit down and agree something along the lines of lifeinagoldfishbowl's suggestions. Note that if she were to argue against the deduction, and take you to an employment tribunal, you would need to show that the rules surrounding the deduction were both fair and fairly applied. So the bits about allowing 3 mistakes before deducting (you could probably get away with 2 in any 12 month period) and no deduction counts if there is a delay which the nanny could not reasonably have foreseen or avoided are important to show that the deduction is fair - and of course the deduction must be in respect of an actual financial loss suffered by the employer, it isn't like docking a kid's pocket money because they have been naughty.

In terms of the background, we got a 'warning' about collection time from the nursery. I investigated further yesterday am. We have recently changed DCs schedule and the AP has been getting there at the time DD is supposed to be out of there, maybe five minutes late, which means by the time she's physically out of the building it's into the next session, etc.

Maybe they're being slightly pedantic but they are within their rights.

I think with THIS particular AP, having a word with her about get there a bit earlier, which I did yesterday, will probably be enough.

But I still should have had a policy of some kind in place, which I don't, and will do for next AP.

Not convinced by the 3 strikes you're out idea as I think with some APs it will translate as, if I'm late x number of times, that's okay then.

Can I not just say: "We are charged £1 per minute for late collection at the nursery. We reserve the right to recoup some or all of these fees depending on the circumstances surrounding the lateness." Or some such.

I would love to charge this. I would me making at least an extra 200 quid a day!!

I would give it one warning - because AP may in the first couple of weeks just mistime something - and then point out the clause in the contract, say that's the one time and start charging. 3 strikes also reads as an invitation to be late a certain number of times to me (well, not actually to me but I can see how it might be seen that way).

I would give her a warning this time. and would ask her to work off the costs in babysitting. So, if she charges £6 per hour in babysitting and she has caused your £18 in late fees, then she'd owe you 3 hours of babysitting. There would be no adjustment in pay so nothing to argue about in a court of law / tribunal.

But, I'd let it go this time after just having a word.

That's not how it works Strix. If her contract says she gets paid for babysitting, then you need to pay her for babysitting: if you don't then you are withholding pay.

Harriet, the Tribunal Chairman will look at all the evidence in the case to come to a decision as to whether you have acted fairly, so it is not possible to say 'this wording will always work and that will always fail'. The disadvatage of a clause like the one you suggest is that it is always subjective and that places all the emphasis on proving that you have been fair in your subjective judgement. It can be argued that a "three strike" rule (less so, two, or even less so one) has an objective element which is inherently favourable to the employee and therefore places less weight on the subjective aspects in the overall balance.

Usual disclaimer applies - this is information only and does not constitute legal advice.

BTW I am not saying that you shouldn't ask her to do some unpaid babysitting (this may well be a solution acceptable to everyone), just that the statement "There would be no adjustment in pay so nothing to argue about in a court of law / tribunal" is not accurate.

Isn't this similar to company car drivers..? DH was responsible for all speeding tickets, parking tickets etc. No excuses allowed - He ha da couple when he was in a meeting that overran and he was on a meter.. No sympathy from his company. I don't know how they were paid - but I think the ticket came to him directly so that would be a slight difference since your nanny doesn't have the contract with the nursery...

I mean your au pair..

BTW - asked our au pair how she would feel and she said fair enough - if this was stressed to the au pair as her responsibility for being on-time then unless car breakdown or public transport strike/disruptions then she should be responsible for the charge if it happened after stipulating this.

That's all assuming that you pay her for is the journey time to pick up.. If not then charging her for late arrival is totally unfair.

No, it's not the same as fines or parking tickets incurred in a company car: the driver of the car is liable under statute for these.

A late pick up fee from a nursery is a contractual arrangement between the nursery and the parents and cannot place any liability on anyone not a party to that contract.

MrA, By "There would be no adjustment in pay so nothing to argue about in a court of law / tribunal" I meant there would be no paper trail and therefore au pair would have no evidence to present.

Besides, I can't imagine that this is a dispute worth going to court/tribunal over.

I would say her weekly hours allocation includes a bit of time to get to the nursery assuming she is coming from our house. But my feeling is she starts work at the time that she does and it is her responsibility, to ensure that whatever else she is doing (all personal stuff) before that finishes at a time which enables her to start her hours with us on time. If she had chosen to take a language class in central London, which some of the APs do do here, would I be responsible for including that hour of travelling time into her weekly hours? Don't agree, sorry.

If WE had asked her to do something which then made her late obviously that is different.

I agree the phrase I suggested may be a bit vague/subjective etc but I really think the risk of being taken to a tribunal by an AP over it is pretty darn low. In practice, I will do what Frakkin suggested, allow a one off.

What I don't like about the babysitting in lieu is that I am happy to book and pay for babysitting when required. I don't want to essentially buy options on babysitting before I need it, if you see what I mean. I would prefer to separate the two issues and just resolve the one situation and move on.

This has actually happened to me and I always let them off the first time, tell them what it cost me personally, and then make them cough up after that (at least I would, but it never got to a second time).