Nannying advice please! For a childminder considering nannying

[JennyPenny22]

Hello. Basically I am a childminder and as some of you know I am moving to west sussex. The plan was to move there and childmind there. But I have seen a nannying job advertised there and they have said they would be happy for me to bring my 2 children along.

But pay is £1000 a month gross for 4 full days 8.15am till 5.45pm
These seems a bit low to me, but then I am bringing my 2 children along with me so I would expect it I guess. But the £1000 was advertised before I said about children.

Basically, I would like to know how I work this out as a NET payment?

On one hand it would be great to have the job as I can agree it all before I move, rather than taking weeks to build up a buisness childminding from home. And the little boy is the same age as my DD2 which would be lovely and I think I would be happy nannying.

But on the other hand, I don't think it will work out much better finacially than just having one under 5? As the rate for CMs there is round the £5 mark. And I am not sure if it would be as fair on my DDs to get them there by 8.15, as obviously with CM it fits in with them. AND DH was thinking about registering as well so we can both do it together and he could give up work.

Would be very grateful of any advice.

Go here, put 1000 in against Gross Salary in the column headed Monthly and hit recalculate - that shows net pay of £850 per month, or £196 per week. Now if you like change 'Days per week' near the bottom to 4, and 'Hours per week' to 38 and hit recalculate again. So this works out at £6.06 per hour gross, or £5.15 net.

This is pretty low for a 'normal' live-out nanny job, but about right for a nanny-with-child.

Now if you were getting £5 per hour childminding for say 10 hours a day, 5 days that's £250 a week. You would have to pay tax and NI on that and would have some (tax deductible) expenses and the 10% wear-and-tear deduction, so you would probably end up with a similar amount of money IF you can find a child full time at £5 per hour.

So would that meet minmum wage? Wasn't sure if minimum wage was before or after tax? I am guessing it is before tax in which case it would meet it?

Thanks for your reply am just replying to the family now with all my details.

Minimum wage is before Tax deductions. So £6.06 does meet NMW currently. NMW is currently £5.80 for someone aged 22+ (see rates)

Another thing to be aware of... if the family want a nanny who is Ofsted Registered, then you need to change the register for which you are on, to the Voluntarty Part of the Childcare Register. Cost is currently £103 a year for that register - Ofsted Fees from Sept 2009.

nannynick, thanks for pointing that out, my CM fees have only been paid a few weeks ago, will this money count towards it or be lost completly? Do you know if I can be a registered childminder and a registered nanny at the same time?

Do you have to be ofstead registered to accept the childcare vouchers? Thats what they want to pay with. Haven't needed to accept them so far so don't know much about it. Do ofsted visit you or anything as a nanny?

I'm a nanny that used to be a childminder.

Re the Ofsted registration - you neeed a common core qualification (you may have done an ICP course to become a childminder) 12 hour paediatric first aid and nanny insurance (around £60 per year) I think it's likely that you will not get any rebate or transfer from the cm fee. It is also fairly common for the employer to pay the registration fee as they are the one to get the tax break benefit from it.

I work 31 hours a week and I earn just under £11 gross but do not take a child with me. I could earn more as a childminder, especially when you consider the expenses you can offset against your childminding business. I also now have commuting costs to pay and a longer working day when you take into account the time per week travelling to and from work.

However I've not regretted it at all as I get several benefits from it. Firstly I have got rid of all that paperwork that goes with childminding - the risk assesments, daily diaries, project planning etc. My home is not a nursery anymore - no more displaying certificates, childrens work and individual towels in the bathroom. My home stays cleaner and tidier. I am now employed which means I don't have to spend time on my accounts and doing a tax return. I get the benefits of employment like holiday pay and sick pay.

For me it is better, my children are older and do not need to come to work with me - you need to consider the practicalities of taking your children to somebody elses house each day. Leaving early in the morning, getting back after tea/homework, who provides their food whilst you are at work, will the school they are going to be within easy distance of work, if the children in this job are at school/coming up to school or nursery will it be the same school your children are at.

Lots to consider

No rebate as far as I am aware. To be honest, you may not want to terminate your childminding reg anyway, so if things don't work out you can restart childminding quickly. Just notify Ofsted that there are no children on roll, so inspections can be delayed.
Yes you can be on multiple registers at the same time.
Yes you would need the Voluntary Childcare Register registration to take childcare vouchers. In theory you could use your childminding reg, as I do wonder how long it would take them to check - but it isn't right to do really. You may also need different insurance, check with your PL insurer.
Would be easier if they didn't need to pay via Childcare Vouchers, as nannies don't have to be registered unless they accept vouchers.

jenny, does seem a very low wage - i would try and haggle for at least 8gross - which would be about £1300gross or just over £100nett

maybe they family got nett and gross mixed up?

I did think about haggling, as I would like a bit more if I am honest. Would be happy if it was £1000 net as the wage and all going OK when we met I would definatly be happy to do that instead of childmind.

Thing is, I am worried if I try and get the money up a bit, it will put them off me, as afterall, I have already asked to bring 2 children with me. But I know I am a good childcarer and that they would be getting their moneys worth. If I didn't have my own children to come with me then I don't think I would Nanny for much less than £10 an hour.

I have been thinking about the practicalities of it. I think that the only thing I might struggle with is being there by 8.15am but really, it would do us good to get in a better routine in the morning. The kids are up at 6am so I have no excuse really not to be ready on time.

My eldest is 2 so I wouldn't need to worry about schools or anything for a couple of years. We are only renting too so we could always move closer to them when the school issue arises if need be. If I am still working for them anyway. The area they live in is very close to where we are looking at houses anyway, so we might even be in walking distance.

The little boy I would be looking after is only 8 months (only 2 months younger than DD2 which is nice) so they won't have the school issue for a while either.

there is no harm in saying you wanted more like £8gross, which is £1000ish net and see what she says

or look about for another nanny job,though tbh it is rare to find a nanny job that the nanny can take both her children

if a nanny took one child,thereare sometimes a wage drop of 10/20% so maybe this mum thinks the same/more for 2 children

what would employers on MN think/want if they had a nanny who brought 2 children to work?

strix sure you would want to pay a lower rate?

So you will have 3 under 3, of which 2 are under 1 (for a couple of months). Fun - I'm sure you are used to it though having been a childminder.
Consider some practicalities: Transport - how will you transport all 3 children? Highchairs - will you need to supply one (or two) for your own children to use at the families home and will they want those stored there.
Think there was a thread a while back about nannying with own child, with regard to things to consider such as equipment, feeding arrangements, getting to/from activities etc.

Blondes I think the consensus is that a fair rate for a nanny-with-child is 60%-75% of a normal rate, not the 80%-90% you suggest.

The logic for this is that the situation is similar to a nanny share, where the nanny gets 120% to 150% of a 'normal' nanny wage, and this is shared between the families.

I personally would not want to employ a nanny who was looking after two children of her own under 2: if I couldn't afford the sole attention of a nanny I would use a childminder. Which is kind of back where we started!

I don't think I would have 2 under 1 for very long , as my DD2 is 10 months now and although it doesn't say a start date yet, I am guessing she is planning ahead a bit. My DD2, who is 2 has been walking everywhere for a while now, only taking a buggy when we have been out for a whole day. We haven't used our double for ages, and do have a buggy board that will attach to it.

Well they haven't replied yet anyway. I hope they do. I think I am going to just accept the wage they are offering, but hope they will pay for my ofsted fees etc. Do you think that is resonable?

Transport wise, I have a 7 seater car wise and a double buggy for walks, and can buy a triple if need be but I honestly don't think I will need one. Highchairs, we have a spare if we need it, but also a litte travel one that takes up next to no space. Would need to leave a travel cot there for the 4 days though which is what I was going to ask about when I speak to them properly. DD1 has been in a normal chair for quite a while now so thats fine.

Really, DD1 has always been quite advanced/grown up for her age and is more like a child 6 months or so older, so that should make things a bit easier really.

Mranchovy - I don't have 2 under 2s. But I do get your point and did think the same. But I guess they want the convience of having it all from home?

hopefully they will pay for your ofsted

i think employers should always pay - it doesnt benifit the nannies

yes you could argue and say an ofsted nanny could be offered more jobs, but there is no point in a nanny becoming registered incase she gets a job where the employers can use vouchers

mine cant, and if i had reg myself then it would have been a waste of £103

Sorry, 2 children under 3 - should have read more carefully.

If they want to use tax credit/childcare vouchers it is reasonable that they should pay your Ofsted fee and any necessary courses, but they should not pay your insurance (not if they want to claim against it anyway).

Haven't read whole thread but if you are a CMer you can asked to me added to the voluntary register for free. This is a definite as I have done it.

Really Navy? So I can be a registered Nanny as well as a registeredchildminder, for no extra cost? Sounds perfect!

I think a reduction of 25 - 40% for a nanny-with-child is far too much. Whilst it is similar to a nanny-share there is still only one employer. Ime, the problems arise when there is more than one set of parents to negotiate hours/pay/routine etc with.

I was a nanny before I had ds then registered as a CM when he was 3 because I found it really hard to find a nanny job that offered enough hours due to me wanting to bring ds with me. I earned more cm-ing 2 children than I would have as a nanny. It suited ds and I, especially when he started nursery.

He's 7 now and I'm really keen to go back to nannying. Whilst I love the variety that cm-ing brings, it would be nice to have one family, no paperwork, holiday pay etc. Also, I feel like I've had pre-school toys in my living room far too long !!

Sorry for the long ramble! My first thought was that, if I was in your position, I would continue cm-ing but, actually, had a more full-time job been offered to me I'd have probably taken it.

Would the mother consider using you as a CM?

Jenny yes, you can be on all three registers!

Yes you can be a nanny and childminder, I spoke to ofsted the other day about it, what you have to do is if you are nannying more than childminding then you need to inform them, as a childminder you get a discount to be on all the registers you can continue using the same registration and not mind for 3 years before having to pay the higher ofsted amount.
You will need to take out the nanny insurance which is an extra £26 ish with ncma. Keep your childminding registration live and you can work between the 2.

Well they haven't got back to me anyway I am hoping its just lack of internet access but its not looking good is it?!

Thanks for everybody who has replied, I will keep you updated!

Danthe4th - are you saying that Ofsted are fine with the childminder registration being used in a nannying context? It's just the insurance that needs changing?
If so, sounds a good way to do things. Wish Ofsted would produce a Factsheet about it, so everyone would know.

I thought you had to be on the voluntary register as well as the early years and compulsory registers to be a registered nanny