uncertain that a babysitter has as much experience as she has claims; wwyd?

[Lymond]

I've interviewed an 18 year old as a mothers help/evening babysitter. She's going to study nursing in 2011. In the meantime she's advertised, trying to find part time work childcare to fit around some daytime courses she's doing. Part of her Ad said

"I have had lots of babysitting experience professionally, I have glowing references from a lot of different people whom I have babysat for! I have babysat for a lot of different children, ages ranging from newborn (0-3 months) up until 13-14 year olds, both personally and professionally."

When I interviewed her I liked her, as did the children. I asked for 2 references, and she supplied 2 phone numbers. The first said they'd known her "her whole life" and she's babysat for their 4 year old for the past 2 years. They didn't really volunteer any other information, I had to drag out of them "she's a good girl", "a nice kid" etc.. It certainly wasn't the kind of reference that I have given for previous nannies/au pairs/babysitters!
The 2nd mother said that "she seems nice, but she's only babysat for us once so I was a bit surprised when she asked us for a reference"! The girl had told me that she had "been babysitting for this family for few months.." which as she's only babysat once, a few months ago, is I suppose technically true...

After school mothers-help part of the role won't be sole-charge (apart from if say one of the DC needs to go to the GP's, and I leave the other 3 with her briefly). I would like that flexibility. Obviously, evening babysitting is sole charge, though mostly all the DC will be in bed.

I've always done things properly, and had already phoned a nanny tax agency to set all this up. If I knew from the start that she didn't have much experience than I may not have interviewed her, and would have offered less money. However, now I've met her I did warm to her. She has younger siblings, and I think her experience with DC is with them, rather than formal babysitting. But is it dishonest of her to then write an ad claiming "glowing references"?

I've been looking for a mothers help since Sep 09. I've only found people who aren't prepared to lose some of their income to tax & NI or who can't do some of the sessions/want more hours. Its tricky.

Any advice?

Personally, I think that level of experience is fine for a mother's help. If you want someone who has sole charge experience, I think you find that they want a nanny job and a nanny wage.

If you like her and you are going to be around to monitor her performance (which obviously you are in a MH job) then why not?

I know it's hard choosing childcare. But, she sounds like a good MH candidate to me.

It depends how happy you are with her and how capable she is. Inexperience is not the end of the world - just think how many people are totally inexperienced when they have their own children!

The issue here I think is more her honesty and opinion of herself and her capabilities. Would you have been inclined to more this in a more positive light if she'd said she didn't have much 'professional' experience but lots of experience with younger siblings and had done some babysitting? I sense that you feel misled particularly about the references. IMO glowing references are those where you have a letter which says lovely things and then people call up and your ex-boss waxes lyrical. 'Yes she babysat for us' or 'she's a good kid' is not glowing. TBH I think people often do inflate their experience when they're starting. People with 2 or 3 years describe themselves as experienced nannies which IMO they're not. Does she have any other referees you could call? Maybe those were just the first two which came to hand? I didn't hand out all my babysitting references when I was looking for a job at first - I picked the ones with relevant ages.

I wonder why she only babysat for those people once.

Strix - thanks for your opinion that her level of experience is okay for a mothers help. Thats part of what I've been wondering about, having only every had proper nannies in the past (which now I don't need as a SAHM). My Dc are aged between 6 months and 7 years.

frakkin - yes, its the lack of honesty that is bugging me. I have emailed her asking to see one of the "glowing references" she mentioned.

I told her when I invited her for interview that the pay range was £7-9p.h. depending on experience. At interview she showed me A'level result in a childcare subject and showed me her CRB check and first aid qualification, I felt that I couldn't offer her the lowest end so said that if I offered her the job it would be on 8p.h. (Although this is gross she will only just be earning higher than the tax free allowance so will lose very little to tax.) She seemed thrilled with this money.

Now, when she doesn't have the "professional" experience and references, I wish I'd offered £7 or £7.50. I don't want to annoy her, if I do end up employing her, though, as I want anyone around my kids to feel happy with me.

(The people she babysat for once say they don't go out much but will use her again in future.)

I guess she has some experience but not a huge amount from what you can work out but enough for a mothers help/babysitting job.

Perhaps you shouldnt have agreed a wage before getting references

however you havent offered the job yet I assume as you were following up references so could potentially say you on reviewing your references we are not able to offer the job on the agreed salary however we could offer you the job at a lower rate of £7 an hr gross to reflect your experience and will review in 3 mths with the possibility of increasing it to £7.50 an hr. (have those 3mths as a trial where either party can terminate the arrangement at the end of those 3mths with a 1wk notice period).

I run babysitting courses for 13-17yr olds and we say for 16-18yrs olds to charge around £5-£6 gross an hr depending on what other courses they have done/are doing and any other experience they may have.

I think its a positive you actually like this girl and maybe she wanted her ad to look good and feels she would have glowing references from her experience of what the families say to her.

its good you like this girl, but i would be wary of her bending the truth about her exp/babysitting she has done

giving the number of a person she has done just once seems very weird, does she not have any regulars - or is it all family?

does she have any written refs?

£8 ph is what a fully qualified nanny with 5-10 years' experience is currently getting where I live.

Babysitters get about £5-6 an hour.

I would be very unhappy about the bending of the truth, and I would not take her on.

I worked in a similar role to the one you are offering. There were 4 children in the family, ranging in age from 6 months to 8 years. I was 19 when I started and I had babysat for the previous 5 years including sole charge care overnight. However, I had limited experience with young (under 2 years) children. My wage was £5.50 an hour.

I think you should meet with the girl again and ask her to clarify her previous experience. If she is able to provide more references from her previous roles which show she has the experience she initially said then you should keep her salary the same. If she doesn't have as much experience then I think you should discuss this with her and find out what she knows about looking after children and also put her salary to a lower rate.

Thanks everyone.

I emailed her yesterday asking for more details, and more references, and haven't heard back yet. I wonder if being quizzed has scared her off. Frustrating...... DH is working in Ldn in the week at the moment, and I'm struggling with mild pnd so I really need the help.

I'm really grateful for the opinions of not trusting her because of the lack of honesty. I kind of feel the same way, but am waiting to see if she can come up with some more references before making a final decision.

If I do end up offering it to her, I'll lower the money, and I've learnt my lesson on agreeing a wage before asking for references.

Re the lack of honesty - yes, I suppose it is that but I'm also sure that lots of people in all different sectors of work have 'bigged up' their cv to give them more of a chance of getting a job/interview.

As you are at home and you will have the chance to assess her skills before giving her any sole charge (and you say that you wouldn't really need to very often) I would give her a chance and have a 3 month probation period where you can let her go easily if things are not working out.

I also think her wage should be lower - nearer the £6ph mark. I like eastmidlandsnightnanny's idea of you offering her a lower rate and an increase after her probation period.

Still haven't heard back from her... (and my emails last week setting up the interview were always replied to within a few hours.)

I think she's been scared off. I feel that I phrased my email nicely, so if a nicely-put, gentle challenge is too much for her then I guess she is too immature for the role.

Darn it! I really need some help!

Try one more email - just in case the last one was lost in cyberspace somewhere, though I think you might be right and she's been scared off.

Good luck with your hunt. Hope you find someone soon

Thanks

Emailed her Friday, Saturday and yesterday. still heard nothing. I have her mobile numberm though we've communicated by email thus far. Not sure whether eor not to call her.

Depends how much you do like her and want her to work for you. I think after 3 emails I would be a bit put off calling her, but as you said she may have been scared off. That suggests that she may be a bit immature but remember her age and that not all 18 year olds are brimming with confidence. As it is not a sole charge role you don't need someone that is uber confident. Maybe she is a bit shy and working with you in this type of job is what she needs to help build up her confidence.

i would call and leave a message satating that you would like to discuss the job in more detail and can she call you within 2 days or you will be interviewing again

this doesnt mean you have to employ her, just that you want to chat things over and if you are not happy with her explaination of refs/lacl of then you can look eslewhere

i see it very unprofessional that she hasnt emailed you, she could say

lovely meeting you, but i am not interested, good luck with search etc

I would also call - suspect she has been a bit scared off by the 3 e-mails, but also this would indicate to me that she knows she was being a bit misleading on the ad and is scared she's been caught out.

If you say that you're not upset, you don't mind about her experience but you wish she'd been more honest and in light of the lack of professional experience you'd be paying her a bit less then you can see what she comes back with and maybe it'll work out?

Ah, just rang her, she claims to have gone away for weekend and not had internet access. She said she had thought she'd be able to give her mum as a reference as she's babysat so much for younger siblings, and only found out at the last minute that she couldn't

In her favour, she says that a CRB check has come through which she can show me (which the university she's applied to for nursing has just had done).

She's coming over later to show me CRB and for a (paid) trial session. I've told her it'll only be on £7 p.h. unless/until I've assessed that I'm happy to leave her with some sole charge. She said that's fine... I'll have to see
1/ if she turns up later, or the lower money has put her off
2/ whether she's got enough real childcare experience to not-be-made-mincemeat-of by my feisty 2 elder children (she's only met the littlies so far!)

Thanks everyone.

Well that's better, but not lots of 'professional' babysitting experience or references from 'lots of people'.

£7ph gross or net?

Good luck for later.

im assuming gross - i know nannies in their 30's who earn £7nett and this is an 18yr - nmw is £4.83 for her - so even £7gross is a bloody good wage, over £2 ph nmw

MH's just left; and was great! Things like, she spoon fed the baby while I was making supper, and she clearly knew the technique, and every trick in the book (giving him his own spoon to hold etc...). She arrived just as my cleaner left, and heard my cleaner say she hadn't had time to change the DC's sheets, so MH suggested that they and her do it together before a game. She also talked the 5 yr old out of a tantrum, whihc isn't easy to do.

Early days, but good indications, so I offered her 3 after school sessions next week, and if we're both happy at the end of next week then we'll make it an ongoing contractual agreement. I'm not going to leave her in sole charge for a while yet though.

She's happy with £7 p.h. gross. She said its more than she's got for any other childcare. But I feel its fair as sessions I need her for are short (sometimes only 2 hours).

We had an honest chat, where she admitted that her experience was more for her 4 younger siblings and lots of cousins. She told me that one of the days I want is not ideal for her to work (as her mum wants her to do the family cleaning and ironing that afternoon, in exchange for her keep!), and that is the least important session for me, so absolutely fine. She's happy to structure her hours differently in school holiday times.

On £7 p.h., with the hours we've now agreed, she'll be earning £84 a week. That's her only income. Which is low enough that she won't pay any tax, and I don't have to pay any NI, right? I'm just researching hol pay while the DC watch a tv show... (they're nicely tired out!)

says here

ni

National Insurance
You can earn up to £110 a week (2009-2010) before you pay any National Insurance contributions. This is known as the 'primary threshold'.

However, as long as you earn more than £95 a week (2009-2010) you can still build up your entitlement to a State Pension and certain other benefits. This is known as the 'lower earnings limit'.

All sounds like it has worked out well!