Payment for part time nanny share arrangement

[mickytoo]

Would be interested in your views. I've had a full time nanny, for DCs 4 + 8, for a year now. I pay £12 gross/h (~£9/h net). Since Sept, her mornings have been DC-free, during which she cooks meals for kids. Between 12-3 she only looks after 1 DC.

Anyway mother of younger DC's classmate friend asked whether my nanny could look after her DC as well in my house, twice a week between 12-3. I think this will be good for my DC. She is thinking of paying £20 for the 3 hrs, which is what she would have paid a local playgroup.

• DH thinks we should take all the money and not give to nanny (on the basis that nanny's job got easier recently)

• I think I should take £5 and give £15 to nanny (on the basis that we would be providing lunch and I take on responsibility/hassle of notifying friend about any illnesses)

• Nanny thinks she should be paid £10/hour extra AND take it all herself, on the basis that that's what her friend who works fraudulently as a "self-employed nanny" does for a similar arrangement Although to be fair, she is the one who needs to do the extra work.

For most issues, the views of the three of us tend to converge, but I was amused to see that we have really different views on this one. What do you think?

I'd take £5 per week from other mum as contribution to the grocery bill and let nanny work out the rest. I would steer well clear of having anything to do with the arrangement of pay to nanny from other mum if she is giving her cash in hand. Keep your dealings with nanny contractual. If nanny wants to arrange another employment with other mum let it be between the two of them.

Even if you take £5 per week to cover the cost of providing this boy with food, you gain nothing from this arrangement... except a playmate for your child.

Thanks. £5/wk is not a bad idea.

The playmate side is quite a good thing in my eyes. Other positives are that we'd be helping someone I like, who may help me and/or nanny one day! Point taken about the cash in hand aspect - need to look into tax etc

If you use Nannytax or similar speak to the Legal Department. This could be a minefield re tax, NI, liablility insurance, your home insurance etc.
I had a number of approaches similar to this when we had Nannies. I always said 'No, Nanny's contract states that she must work for me exclusively in contracted hours'. Which is true and sounds less offensive to the friend than 'No I don't want to and antway it might put me on the wrong side of the law'!

your nannys afternoon will prob be easier - both will play - bit like when i have 4yr friend back after nursery - they boys go off, baby is asleep and i get 2hrs peace (after tidying up lunch/sorting tea etc out)

so £10ph seems a lot ie an extra £30 - i think £10 per afternoon - i know that works out £3ph but thats about the average extra for nanny share

I think £5 for food, £5 for you/hubby and £10 to nanny

your dh would insult me, why should you/he pocket the money when the nanny is doing ALL the work

meant dh arrangement would insult me

I'd be cross if I were the nanny if I gained another child and benefitted in no way. TBH I'd probably rather just not add anyone else to the mix, dealing with another parent's needs etc may be far more hassle than it's worth...

Blondes

"your dh would insult me, why should you/he pocket the money when the nanny is doing ALL the work "

But in that case, why do you suggest me to take £5 for food and another £5? Don't you think then that we should just charge £5 less?

I think DH is in corporation mode, where you are given more responsibility with no pay or promotions, and then you get recognised afterwards if you meet the challenges. I can see his point but I think nannies are not corporate employees.

Since nanny will be looking for a new job in Sept (she knows this), I don't think it's totally not in her benefit to help out this mother, since this woman knows everyone in the community. And as Blondes says, I think the kids will play together so she won't have to spend a solid 2 hours reading books or playing chase with my DC... But these are my views and I'm more interested in yours!

because you do need to get something, you pay the nanny and your friend is using her, i think £10 for 3 hrs where tbh she prob wouldnt see much of the 2 children is fine

its like a nannyshare, the nanny needs to get something, where in your dh view, she shouldnt

you and your dh are complete opposites, where mine is in the middle of you both

In your DH's corporate view, the employee gains something: a possible promotion. In your nanny's case, that opportunity is not available. So, if she doesn't get something out of the deal right now, she has no reason to accept this change to her contract. There should be some gain in this for everyone. Something for you, something for nanny, something for DS, and something for friend and her DS.

AS you say, you are happy that a playmate for DS is his gain. You want to at least break even (i.e. not cover additional costs for playmate while she sponges off your childcare arrangement). Nanny gets an easier life in some ways, more work in others (she has less entertaining to do but more food prep and two sets of parents to ask for hols, call in sick, etc.). So, there should be some financial gain for nanny.

And, furthermore, you should, in my opinion, ask nanny if she wants to take on this extra work. And make it very very clear that she is free to say she doesn't want to do it. She has a contract with you (presumably) and she has every right to decline a proposal to change it.

Yes, nanny is fully involved in all this and is free to choose. She says happy to do it. Part of the problem is she is capable of being resentful (just like anyone else ) but is veeery reluctant to talk money. Probably had a nicer upbringing than mine.

I'll be relaying sicknesses and hols, not her. And all DC had for lunch is sandwiches. But walking to and from school with 2 kids is undoubtedly more work than with 1.

I would say that you either do it properly through your contract, add a bit which says she has an extra charge 2 afternoons a week and for those hours will be paid, say, £5/hour gross more (so £15 gross more on those days) with you keeping £5 for the groceries etc. If £5 won't cover it then put her on £4 an hour extra. In a nanny share situation I ask for a 1/3 increase which would put her up to £16 gross, which is £4 an hour to her and £8 to you for the afternoons.

OR you butt out completely and mother gives you a specified amount for food/wear and tear and the rest to the nanny on a CIH basis.

She will theoretically have 2 employers to keep happy....

Thanks. It would be so much easier to go CIH but...

Looks like her extra income of £5 gross/h would be taxed at 20%, 11% NI and 12.8% employer NI Since I'd be liable for the extra employer NI, I'd have to take some money. Still, it is a 40% increase on her hourly rate. I'll see what nanny says. Shame this is so difficult when all you want to do is to help someone, benefitting all.

tech cih is easier, and i would never tell someone to do that as it is illegal but .......

is the arrangement only term time, ie what/who looks after 8-12 and 3-6 in holidays - seems weird hours

Thnks Blondes... and good to know about nanny share rates.

They would have to have some other arrangement for school holidays, as I wouldn't want nanny to have 4 to look after!

so it is just for term time then, and just 3 hrs twice a week?

So basically you're nanny sharing for 3 hours at £15/hour gross which is £45 between the two of you. So nanny needs to get £3 per hour extra for this = £9.00ish.
You keep the rest. Obviously it may not be in her contract that she has to nanny share in which case she can say no, so you need to make it worth her while.
However, she has a fairly easy morning and will probably value her full time job (which could be quite easily changed to after noon). Personally I think an extra £10 is fair

Blondes - yes it is. It's such a small amount, but makes no diff in the eyes of the tax man.

Karoleann - thanks, useful to know that the offer isn't too unreasonable!

very true - all money earnt should be taxed