increased Nursery Grant. CM-How will it affect you?

[onadayliketoday]

I'm a CM and one of my mindees will possibly have a nursery place at the local primary school from September. I have always charged for the full day for those attending nursery for 5 sessions. But now parents will get the option of 2 and a half days, have any other CM had thoughts on how they will charge if mindees are at the nursery for 6 hours in one day? It is easy enough to justify charging for the day when the child is only there for 2.5 hours, but I can't see parents being happy to pay when their child is at nursery for 6 hours.

Bump. I don't know enough about this so haven't thought about it yet but I would probably still have to charge if they needed cover in the school hols as otherwise I wouldn't be able to fill those hours they're not here. Parents aren't loosing any money, they are just not 'saving' money and that's something they need to think about. If I could fill those set hours Term Time only then I'd be happy not to charge but most of my children are full contracts so I'd struggle. I'm afraid I can't afford to LOOSE money because of the savings parents could potentially make. It would be up to the parent to decide if they still needed me. Obviously they need to remember they might need someone before/after school etc. when their child gets older.

Anyway, as much as I'd love to say no, you don't have to pay me, at the end of the day I'm running a business and if all my little ones suddenly started doing these shorter hours, I couldn't afford to keep childminding. Does that make sense?

looneytune Thanks for your reply. It does make sense.

I feel exactly the same way as you. But I suspect the parents in this case may want to reduce what they pay me if he does 6 hours in a day at nursery. The child's older brother goes to the after school club until 6pm after school and in the holidays and I suspect the younger one will also be sent there once he is in school full time; so they won't need me at all once he is in reception.

He only comes to me three days per week, from 8.15am to 6pm. Dad takes the older brother to school on his way to the station in the mornings, but the nursery doesn't start until 9.10am so he will miss his train if he takes him to nursery. So they will need me for the hours he is not at nursery, but that could be just 4 hours on any days he may go there for 6 hours. I think I may suggest they opt to take the two 6 hour sessions on the days I don't mind him, and one three hour session on one of the other days. (If the nursery will let them choose).

As Dad works from home on those days that might work better for him. they will of course need care in the school holidays until September 2011, so if they don't pay me for the three full days then I wouldn't keep the full three days open in the school holidays for him.

Hiya. Think I may have got confused the other day thinking this was something new the government were thinking of introducing in the future (as there are some pilot schemes going on round here but it's for 3 hours, not 6). With our school's nursery, you can only do 5 sessions of either 5 x mornings or 5 x afternoons but at the local 'pre-school' which is not attached to a school, this can be as 2 and half days grouped together so maybe this is what you meant? Either way, I stand by what I put originally Sorry that doesn't help you much but would make sense for the parents to use these hours when not with you.

It would be worth trying to get in contact with a childminder in areas where this has been running already. For several years now in Stoke-on-Trent for example, children have been entitled to a full time nursery place (9.00am - 3.00pm or thereabouts) the September after they turn 3.

One of mine does 9-3 two days a week and 9-12 another, the parents pay for my space fulltime, 8-5, it is what is in my contract, they either pay or they dont have the space to be honest.

I have never had anyone complain about it,in this instance I have the nursery child's younger sibling as well.
Will dig out my policy if you want.

Onaday this is what I have in my handbook.

5?S IN OTHER SETTINGS

A child is counted as an under 5 by Ofsted until they are in full time education i.e. at school for 10 sessions a week.

A child who is at pre school is a under 5 and if they are with a childminder before and after pre school, and require a fulltime space during the holidays they therefore are taking a childminders full time space. As such you are required to pay retainer fee for the time that they are at preschool, as the childminder cannot then fill the part time that they are at pre school.

Oh so it IS something different then.

islandofsodor - so are these longer hours for 5 days a week?

I'm all confused about what is changing now. But it still doesn't change what I'd say to parents, they either pay for my space or move I'm afraid. My business would be no more if I didn't charge.

I think the difficulty will be when the 2yr old free grant comes in to play as well. As pre-schools will basically have twice as many children to fit into sessions.

Pre-schools already offer either 5 am or 5pm sessions for 3yr olds, therefore will be required to double up for the 2yr olds. I doubt very much that most pre-schools will have the space available to do this, they tend to be at capacity already. Also the two yr olds will bring with them different needs ie: nappy changes, naps if needed. Also if children take the sessions in full days the pre-school will have to provide lunches, which will be difficult for many.

I really don't think that the gov have really thought about the needs of 2yr olds through very well.

From a CM perspective I think it will depend how the sessions are offered, if full days or 2 1/2 days per week, then this will benefit parents more but I feel will be quite detrimental for many CM's. For example I have some mindees that are with us from 9 - 3.30pm, I can't see parents willing to pay for care all through the day, and I certainly wouldn't be prepared to care for a mindee just between 3.00 - 3.30pm, financially it will be a nightmare.

Yes, 5 days a week. if you live in Staffs LEA you got 5 half days but across the border in Stoke it is 5 full days and in school nurseries it is all or nithing you can't opt for the part time option unless yo go private. I do know that when it first came in several playgroups struggled and some closed as a result (a friend was on the committee of one of them). This was back in 2004/2005 ish. They are now piloting free childcare for 2 year olds from what I gather.

In Stockport, where I live, the free education grant goes up from 12.5 to 15 hours per week from September. (For all children from the term after they are 3).

I had thought that this was countrywide, but from the reponses to this thread so far it seems not.

Up to now the sessions were 2.5 per day Mon to Fri, either am or pm. On our Council website it now says:

"15 hour flexible entitlement
From September 2010, the amount of free time that is available for eligible three and four year olds will increase from 12.5 hours to 15 hours a week for 38 weeks of the year.

The other important feature of this new funding is that it will be more flexible ? in other words, the 15 hours can be spread over 3 days (or more). The flexible entitlement enables the family to vary the times and days when the hours are ?spent?. The free entitlement will not be restricted to am or pm only sessions (e.g. 9 to 11.30am /1.15-3.30pm). From September 2010, free hours can be claimed over a minimum of three and maximum of five days, subject to agreement with the provider(s). In Stockport, no more than 6 hours can be claimed for in any one day.

The level of flexibility will vary from provider to provider. It needs to be financially viable for providers to offer the service and there has to be enough parents/children wishing a service at a particular time to make this a reasonable demand. The level of flexibility a setting is able to offer will depend on local circumstances".

If the parents of the child I care for opt for two 6 hour days and one 3 hour session they may not want to pay me for when he is taking his two 6 hour sessions. But they will still need me in the school holidays for those hours.

Shoshe. It isn't the status of pre school/school aged children in our numbers that I was asking about. I'm clear on that. This child is 3, and will start school in September 2011, when he will be classed as over 5 as far as my numbers are concerned, but still an EYFS child until August 2012.

Making the current 2.5 hour sessions up to 3 hours would also seem problematic in Stockport. The afternoon session is currently 12.45pm to 3.10pm. Extending it to 3.40pm would mean parents collecting from the infants/juniors to hang about for half an hour or more for the nursery to finish. If they started half an hour earlier it would be 12.15pm, which doesn't fit in with lunchtimes for the children.

The morning session is 9.10am to 11.30am. Making that half an hour longer by finishing at 12 noon is doable, but that would impact on options to make the afternoon session longer. Then there is the problem of mealtimes for the ones doing 6 hours. the canteen at our school isn't big enough for all the schoolies (some on packed lunches have to eat in the classrooms), so I can't think where they will put the preschoolers.

I don't envy the schools trying to sort this lot out.

As far as free hours for 2 year olds go, the mind boggles. There will be nappy changing logistics to take into account as well.