advertising for a nanny - should I mention proposed pay or not?

[nomoresleep]

I'm about to start advertising for a nanny again. We were v lucky with our previous nanny who stayed for over 3 years until we had our second baby. I really want to get the recruitment process right to increase chances of getting another great candidate - last time around it was more by luck than anything else that we got someone good.

My current dilemma is whether or not to mention what we are proposing to pay in the job advert.

We are planning on offering £9 per hour net for a 30 hour week (SE London, zone 2, near East Dulwich).

However, I suppose for a fabulous nanny we might increase this to £10 net - the difference in cost is about what it costs to have a cleaner, which is a luxury we've splashed out on whilst I was on maternity leave and I would have loved to continue but could drop if necessary.

So, what should I do? Say it's £9 net? Say nothing as in most job ads? I can see arguments for and against at the moment.

All views welcome!

Yes, I don't apply for jobs which don't say what the salary is as I have a mortgage to pay and it's a waste of my and the parents time if the job won't pay enough.
Give a Gross salary, then a Net equiv IF it is their only income. Don't agree a net salary as they may get other work on other days.
calculator.kistax.com will let you experiment with Net to Gross conversions.

Thanks nannynick. Can I ask though - if the job said £9ph and you were looking for £10, would you apply anyway but say you would be looking for more £ or would you not bother applying? This is the thing - I don't want to deter super-fab nanny but nor do I want to advertise at a rate we can hardly afford.

Thanks for reminding me about not agreeing a net salary!

I agree that you should state how much you are paying. There's no harm in saying 'We are looking at a rate of x per hour, but are negotiable for the perfect candidate'. Or something slightly better worded

Good Luck in the Nanny hunt!

I wouldn't or v.v. unlikely to apply if only one figure stated or none. The ones I like best have a range like 8-10 or 10-12 net. (def. include net as a guide even if putting gross so nanny can easily compare with other jobs). because then you can know where you fit in terms of experience etc. and know the family's budget/how much prepared to pay for who.

Yes, I don't apply for jobs which don't say what the salary is as I have a mortgage to pay and it's a waste of my and the parents time if the job won't pay enough.

ditto nick

i dont see the point of putting 8-10 as obv all the nannies who apply will want 10 and not 8

oh...but surely you know where you'd fit on that scale- only a couple of years exp. what sort of quals. or were coming from a certain salary already. Parents can point to cv and justify individual offer.
negotiable is bit vague and feel it can imply 'actually really not going to pay more and were hoping you'd be negotiable'.

i dont quite agree with the others.

I think word it to the effect of generouse pay to reflect nannies experiance and qualifications.

Thereby ensuring that nannies who are experianced etc and demand (quite rightly) £10net can be accomadated, but making it easy to pay less to a younger less experianced nanny, if she is the right person without offending them.

You may find your perfect nanny candidate is 20 years old and has mostly worked in a nursery?

I would not put salary - and msot ads don't - but give a clear indication of waht you're prepared to go to, so that you don't put off excellent potential candidates (like lovely NannyNick).
Something like - "Pay: in line with market rates, willing to flex to reflect experience" then mention any additional benefits like gym membership, use of car or whatever.
NNick - would you give this a chance?

Note to self: must use preview and correct typos, very boring for others to read. apologies!

Hmm - don't agree with putting 'generous pay' or 'market rates' because it is meaningless. My idea of generous and yours could quite easily be 2 very different things!!

I wouldn't apply for a job ad with no pay - have been burned before going to an interview for a "perfect" job only to find their idea of great rate of pay is £200 a week

Could you put "£9 net per hour (possibly negotiable for exceptional candidates)". I agree that if you put a range, everyone applying will want the top end of the range!

nomoresleep

Can I ask though - if the job said £9ph and you were looking for £10, would you apply anyway but say you would be looking for more £ or would you not bother applying?

I would consider the amount specified to be the realistic amount the family would be paying. I would prefer to see it as annual gross but that's just my preference having been in previous lines of work prior to nannying. You could put a range but by doing so you would get people wanting the top salary. I feel it's better offering the typical amount you would be paying... then finding a candidate to suit that. If you get a candidate who is super, you could always raise the salary after the initial trial period.

If I was looking for £10net per hour (which I wouldn't be in my area, as realistic rates are less than that where I am in Surrey outside of the M25 - current typical rates for 50 hours in my area seem to be £22k-£26k), then I wouldn't apply for a job only paying £9 per hour net.
Compare the gross figures (based on a 50 hour week): If £10 net per hour £34,997 v If £9 net per hour £31,218. Would you apply for a job paying nearly £4000 less than you wanted?

I would far prefer to start working for someone who offered a salary which met my requirement and which they could afford without a struggle. If they then felt I was great, then a salary increase after say 6 months would be wonderful. A salary increase each year would be wonderful. A nice Christmas bonus would be wonderful.

Mummyinthedark:

"Pay: in line with market rates, willing to flex to reflect experience" then mention any additional benefits like gym membership, use of car or whatever.
I would probably not look at the job. If it was very local to me then maybe I would get in touch but my first question would be - how much are you offering to pay.
Market rates change and are hard to calculate in the first place. The data isn't there to use, when I give an indication of local rates (as above) I look at the current job listings at agencies I trust and from those estimate what the range is on that current day.
Gym Membership - I'm thinking of having it myself actually but I would want to be able to select which gym it was at and have it even if I left the job, thus I would need to pay for it myself wouldn't I?
A car would not be of interest to me as I have my own. Providing a 'company car' is a big cost to the employer... if you are considering offering that, do look into the tax implications. MrAnchovy may be able to advise you best on that.

If you want to play safe, provide a salary range but keep it quite tight as £1 per hour can make a big difference over a year. I would say use Gross Per Annum and Net Per Week figures. Then those in other lines of work can compare their current Gross per Annum and those in Net paid jobs can compare their current Net Per Week figure.

The views of nannies like me who post on mumsnet are not likely to represent the views of a typical nanny, in my opinion. We tend to be the more clued up nannies, those who understand Gross salaries, those who have a mortgage or other long-term financial commitment. Nannies... would you agree with that?

gosh, am being really stupid here but what difference does it make to net/gross salary if they do bits and pieces of work for someone else?

The tax code can change. If you have agreed a net pay figure, you would still need to have the resulting pay figure be the same.

If you were to pay £9 per hour net, for 50 hours per week. With tax code 647L it works out currently to be 31,218 gross per year.

If change the tax code to 325L, then gross pay increases to 32,152 to achieve the same £9 per hour net figure.

If the tax code changes to BR (so all their tax free allowance is used by their other job), then gross pay increases to 33,095 to get the same 9 net per hour.

As the Gross pay figure changes, there are also Employer NI changes.

Thus why I feel it's important for employers to agree a Gross salary, as then if there are any tax code changes (which there can be, even if the person does not have any other job) then the amount you pay as the employer won't change by a huge amount.

That's my understanding of it. Anyone else fancy trying to explain things?

HMRC: Tax Codes - more info about various tax codes.

I don't know how the 30 hours a week is made up, but if it is 10 hours a day for 3 days, and the person that gets the job already has a job for the other 2 days they will work for you with a tax code of BR. If you have agreed a net salary, this is going to cost you an additional £41 a week!

Net salaries belong to a different age when people's lives (and tax affairs) were simpler.

NoMoreSleep - if i were you i would advertise a rate you can pay comfortably (and keep the cleaner you obviously want ). There will be nannies who do not apply because they want a higher wage, but then there is always the possibility that there is someone better out there. A higher wage does not necessarily mean a better nanny - I know 'top wage' nannies that quite frankly shouldn't be anywhere near small children, and newly qualified nannies I would be delighted to leave my charges with. If you do not find a great candidate within a set time frame then surely you can readvertise at the higher rate?

I can just envision a post 6 months down the line about giving up your cleaner to pay a supposedly amazing nanny a better wage only to find out shes mediocre at best and you are feeling resentful cleaning and looking after 2 small children every weekend. Take care of yourself too

Oh - and i forgot to say do advertise proposed payment. I'm another nanny who wouldn't consider an ad without knowing the wage.

I would have thought that having a cleaner is an indirect benefit for the nanny, too - should mean a clean and tidy house (not that I am saying that you wouldn't keep it tidy yourself, but I hope you know what I mean). Wouldn't mention it in the ad but would mention in the interview, making clear what nursery duties she would be expected to undertake.
I agree with others that I wouldn't give a range because people will expect the higher end and they'll either be miffed because you don't think they're experienced or qualified enough to merit the higher wage or they'll be puzzled why you apparently compromised, hiring at the lower end of the stated range.

If you are intending keeping your cleaner on, then I would def mention it in the Ad. This can be a real draw card to a nanny!

I think another thing to mention, is that when writing the Ad, make it person, tell a bit about your family. It's not an office job, so it's better not to sound like one!

Thank you everyone! Sorry for the delay in getting back on here to read replies - kids are unwell.

So to sum up, it seems that the majority are in favour of stating proposed pay in the job advert (as opposed to saying something like 'market rate'). Opinions are more divided on whether to state a range or a fixed salary but I think there seems to be a slight majority in favour of a fixed salary.

Drinkyourmilk - I think thats a v perceptive point about being all resentful if we gave up the cleaner to pay a nanny. Nannynick makes a similar point about affordability.

I agree about agreeing a gross wage in the contract - it always slightly does my head in that nannies traditionally convert everything into a net wage but I guess I just got used to this way of thinking.

OK, will start drawing up my ads...

When we advertised before Christmas for a nanny we didn't consider includng salary details but that's probably because we were first-timers.

We advertised on SimplyChildcare and a couple of other places and asked interested candidates to send a CV along with details of their current/expected salary for this position.

It worked for us this time but I guess we'll be wiser next time around!

i think i might have changed my mind somewhat about range. i suppose if you were at the lower end you might try your luck at a job offerrring a higher fixed figure and applicants applying to the range might be the ones 'knowing' they could get the higher amount. maybe. i still like seeing it myself though; it feels inclusive.

The views of nannies like me who post on mumsnet are not likely to represent the views of a typical nanny, in my opinion. We tend to be the more clued up nannies, those who understand Gross salaries, those who have a mortgage or other long-term financial commitment. Nannies... would you agree with that?

agree nick

problem with range is that some nannies get miffed if they dont get top wack, regardless if they only have a few years exp - so if ad says 8-10, they want 10 - and if you offer them 8, they will begrudge the fact you would have/could have paid £10

blondes i agree with you