Dilemma

[runikka]

Good afternoon

Just wondered if anyone can give me some advice....or knock some sense in to me.
We employ a live-in nanny for the simple reason that we have a child with special needs and it is the best (only?) childcare option available to us.

I am currently on maternity leave with my third child and due to start working from home imminently (baby still very tiny - 8 weeks).

Our nanny, for the most part, is very good at her job but there is an underlying personality clash. We all get on fine but I find it very hard to make small talk and feel uncomfortable in her presence. I am naturally shy and neither I or DH are outgoing. That said with our previous nanny there was never any issue. I cant put my finger on it but there is just a constant awkwardness.

The biggest problem is that I am starting to feel like prisoner in my own house. Nanny is quite dominant and isn't backward in coming forward. Initially I was pleased she had made herself so at home but now it just feels like it isn't my home.

I dont know what to do really. I am still a bit of an emotional wreck, pregnancy hormones not completely behind me yet. I dont feel my husband understands at all because she is doing her job of looking after the children. That said there are little niggles such as she will cook twice a week and obviously we sort out the plates and things but for the rest of the week, we end up doing it aswell, and also throughout the day- when she is essentially working and employed to clear up after the children. The daily things we asked such as making childrens bed, feeding the dog rarely get done (we do them obviously before you picture a starving dog). A key thing was washing and ironing and if I am lucky she will load the washing machine and put it into piles to put away...no ironing and no putting away. My dh points out that she worked extra hours during the snow and babysits at short notice...but she does get paid for it and we pay for her to go home once a month, not initially agreed at time of employment but as a goodwill gesture, so I would think a bit of give and take could be expected.

We did state that looking after the children came first and that other chores were secondary but there are three hours a week at least where there arent any children to look after.

Argh I am rambling. I just dont feel it is working but dont really see I have any strong grounds to end employment.

I wouldn't like someone I didn't really get on with living in my house either!
It doesn't sound as if she's pulling her weight around the house. She shouldn't have to clean up after you and DH, but she should clean up after herself at all times, and after the children when she's on duty. AFAIK she should take responsibility for washing, ironing and putting away children's clothes.

Is there any way you can have a live-out nanny instead?

I don't believe that switching to a live-out nanny per se would solve the issue of doing or not doing nursery duties - you could have exactly the same problem with a live-out. Conversely, other live-ins might be more active in carrying out those kind of tasks. And the OP indicated that live-in is the best and possibly the only option for her.

To the OP: I do feel for you (I would not like a live-in at all, full stop, and especially not one I didn't really get on with) but I think that you probably need to stick with things for the time being because with the new baby, your household is probably pretty unsettled as it is. You didn't say what SEN your child has but it might be difficult to change for him/her as well. I do think that you should have a friendly conversation with the nanny in which you say that you feel she is taking over too much in one sense (phrasing this aspect clearly but diplomatically) and not enough in another (very clearly). Perhaps you could couch this in a general "how's it going" review. But don't do it until you feel assertive enough. I am a senior, professional woman, used to dealing with CEOs etc, but when it came to my maternity nurse, I was like jelly - just couldn't handle any kind of confrontation at all. Now that I think back on it, I felt that she was kind of dominant as well, but it may have been simply the strange feeling of not being my usual confident self - rather than her IYKWIM.
So, my advice would be to proceed carefully, go with the flow and when you feel up to it, have that review. Good luck!

Hi

Thanks for your reply. I have been thinking about a part-time live-out option but not sure what to do about current nanny.

Our nanny when we interviewed her said she'd be happy to do a spot of hoovering now and then, cook a couple of times a week and generally keep the place tidy when working.

I was still working when we employed her and on the first day (she had no children that day) I came home to an amazingly clean and tidy house. A couple of days later, even with the children in her charge, the house was the same. We also had all sorts of meals cooked and it was amazing. We actually said to her at the time we didn't want her overdoing it and to chill a bit.

These days things are a bit half-hearted and we do still expect the duties stated in her contract to be carried out when possible. She has three hours everyday between 9am and 12noon where she doesn't have children and we fully accept this is time off. She has a further three hours on a Wednesday between 12noon and 3pm where she doesn't have any children to look after. Today, as far as I am aware she was up in her room. The children's washing is on but the plates and things from HER lunch plus now my son's snack items are in the sink. I fully expect that I'll have to go down clear it all away later. It is such a small thing to get wound up about but there are just lots of small things.

I know my husband thinks I am over-reacting but my maternity leave is going to be over soon. I do get to spend a lot of quality time with my newborn which is great and a luxury that many mums of more than one dont get. However, the whole idea of employing a nanny whilst on leave (asides getting my son used to her) was that I would get to spend time with all three children before having to return to work again. I only get a few hours between baby naps and feeds (breastfeeding) and I seem to be doing the tidying up rather than spending it with the older two children.

It isn't that I dont see the plus side, I dont dislike our nanny and sometimes it works really well. I guess it would help if I was assertive enough to speak up but the issues seem so trivial. Maybe I am just fixated because I am stuck at home.

It makes me so cross when nannies are appearing to work to the letter of their contracts but also not even doing that at times. In every nanny job I had, live in or out, I did more than I was contracted too and sometimes it was appreciated and other times it was taken advantage of.

I think you need to have a talk with her and remind her of her duties. You are paying her salary to do a job, it is not her house so certainly should not be dictating things but also you need to grow a pair and speak up.

My son is autistic. We had a nanny previously and he didn't really react to the change. Out of my eldest two children, he is only home after school really so for three hours a day, in her care. It would affect my older daughter more because she tends to bond easily.

How long have you employed this nanny?

Could you give more indication of working hours, such as typical start and finish times. That may help to indicate if having a live-out is viable.

Ok a couple of questions;

1. How old are the children

1. How old is the nanny

1. Is she a nanny or an aupair as you mention you pay for her to go home every so often

Hi

She has been employed three months now.

Hours currently 7.30am-am then 12noon til 7 four days a week, 7.30 -9 then 12 til 4 but to be honest this is completely flexible now as going to be working from home for foreseeable with only one day in office so just need to try and cover about 40 hours and could do with help at bedtime.

Children are 5 (SN), 3.5 and 8 weeks

She is employed as a sole charge nanny and going home is a trainfare up north once a month

runikka, you sound like you've been perhaps a bit too nice and your nanny has taken advantage.

I do actually think a personality clash should be grounds enough to end the arrangement, especially when you are sharing your home and will be working from home (that's a lot more time than I spend with DH). Your DH is, presumably, going out to work everyday, so his opinion is perhaps not as relevant as yours on the matter.

Summersoon - I wasn't thinking a live-out nanny would solve the not doing duties aspect, but more that it might suit op personally not to have to share her home with a non-family member 24/7, given the awkward feeling she describes and pressure to make small-talk etc.

I should point out, she only has the two older children currently and my son isn't home until 3.30ish as attends school and my daughter goes to her grandparents once a week sooo its not really full on. She will be having our newborn but we have stipulated that we would not leave more than two in her charge mainly because of our sons additional needs.

There are tons of nanny jobs about with your job spec, although you may find it difficult to hire someone willing to have a 3-hour break during the day where they won't be paid, as they will probably find it very difficult if not impossible to find alternative work during that time.

Do you have the ability to pay someone full-time on a live-out salary? Where are you based? Perhaps as your SN son is at school now, there will be less changes apart from the nanny issue and he will be able to handle this better? Do you think emotionally he would be stable enough say in 6 months time to make this a worthwhile option?

So she's been employed for under a year, so no concern of her claiming unfair dismissal, if you do decide it won't work out with her.

As a nanny I work some days 7.30am-7pm. So hours wise it's doable for a local (say someone who lives 1/2 hour drive away or less) live-out nanny. As you will now be working from home more, it's even more a possibility as you could have a nanny work say a couple of long days and a couple of short days.

How involved is DH prepared to be? Could he be around for bedtime a few days a week, so he puts 5 year old and 3.5 to bed, whilst you sort out youngest?

Does your oldest child get on well with this nanny? She's been there 3 months, is there clear bonding or would he not really care if she wasn't there? How verbal is he... can he express his feelings about his nanny... if so, ask how he feels when she goes back to visit her family.

Finding a new nanny will take time. So that may not be that viable an option, unless you have someone in mind.

So lets assume for now that the current nanny stays... how can you make things better?
Do you have some time left on maternity leave, so you can spend some time micromanaging your nanny? If so, then micromanage the times she does not care for children... to help her get into a routine of doing chores.

I'm not the most tidy nanny. My boss is probably laughing at reading that statement! Though I do occasionally have a blitz and tidy the toy boxes or tidy up the lounge. I leave things in the sink, leave things laying around the lounge. It usually gets sorted out eventually but it could be several hours - I don't have any child-free time, especially when toddler doesn't nap during the day.

Are you a clean freak, is that part of the problem? With 3 children, you will have mess around for many many years to come. You can hope to contain that in specific rooms but if you want the place tidy all the time, then I feel that won't often be achieved without employing an army of cleaners. At present your nanny has time during the day to tidy up... that time may not be available later, assuming she will be caring for your baby more.

Concentrate on the most important things that must be done, plus the most annoying thing (as what annoys you most may be something quite minor but it's causing you most distress).

At the moment you are on maternity leave and thus have more contact with your nanny. Once you start work again, whilst being at home you will be working in some kind of home-office I presume. Thus your contact time with your nanny will be a lot less than currently. Would you agree? If you were not around your nanny so much, would the lack of small talk still be an issue?

How are things after working hours? Is she really hard to live with? Does she let you and DH have private time to yourselves - or does she plonk herself between you on the sofa and demand to control the tv remote?

Have you already done a 3 Month Review meeting? If not, sounds like having a review may be a good thing to do. Will give you an opportunity to tell your nanny what is and isn't working and for them to tell you what they feel is and isn't going well.

Good morning

We are going to sit down and have a review.

We are not really clean freaks, I dont really expect the house to be anything other than lived in. Toys dotted around are fine, its just really a days worth of dishes being left in the sink after our nanny has finished for the day....we have a dishwasher so all I am asking is a quick rinse and in there... its much harder to deal with dried on food.

My husband is very hands on but already helps out in the morning so physically cant be around at bedtime. He is also often up in the night with our son as he has severe sleep issues.We are waiting for respite for that so you can imagine we have a lot of sleepless nights...aside from a newborn.

As I've said we dont mind the domestic tasks being left in favour of time with the children but when there evidence she has been on the computer for a lot of the day, its a bit off.

Our son is completely non-verbal but very affectionate and tactile. I'm sure he notices change, Christmas was unsettling but as long as someone is there to cuddle and reassure he doesnt mind who it is.

as has only been there 3 mths i would have a review (as you are) and bring up all niggles about housework/nursery duties/plates in sink etc

i have never understood this, there is a dw, yet db puts plates on side/in sink and i always tell him off - said how are the chilren meant to learn to do it, if they see him not doing it

if she has 3hrs a week to herself then yes should be able to do washing etc - but when you say she cooks twice a week, do you mean for you, her and dh?

obv your eldest has sn so prob cant make his bed, but middle one should be bale to start learning - im a great beleiveer in child labour, can you tell?

but main thing is that you are not happy with her being in your personal space and i think you would be better off with a live out nanny

Hi Blondes

Thank you for your reply.

Yes, she does cook for all three of us but it is normally prepared whilst she is working, alongside the children's dinners. We wouldn't expect her to clear up after cooking but for the other five days we cook and clear away aswell and anything she has used is left on the side throughout the day. I guess it is just how I was brought up is that as a family everyone plays a role in dinner so if there are a few of you and one cooks, the rest will clear. At weekends I dont see why we should be clearing her meal items when we have been out all day, then provide an evening meal and clear them again without any input.

We have had a nanny previous and it worked fine. She wasn't one for domestic tasks but that was not an issue, the house was still presentable and more importantly we knew the children had had a fulfilled day. Its not so much that our new nanny doesn't do the same but just, for example, yesterday she just had just our son to look after. He doesn't command attention in the same way as our little girl (who to be fair wants you to be playing all the time but is currently hooked on colouring which is fairly relaxing). He is contented to play by himself BUT we are trying hard to get to learn the benefits of play with others. I am pretty certain, although supervised, he is left to his own devices. I am not criticising as he isn't easy to engage and often he'd rather you let him be...it is just comments on things like facebook saying "quiet day today" which indicate it probably isn't on the agenda anyway.

Our little girl is just learning the benefits of tidying up after herself, putting dirty washing in the laundry bin etc We do try to get her involved in keeping her room tidy. However, she has playschool in the mornings and because of our son's sleep issues, she often has bad nights being kept awake (her bedroom is next to his) sooo we dont push too much because at the moment we would rather she had a few more minutes sleep than a tidy room. That said, if we havent managed to do it by the time she comes home...and at the weekend there isn't any reason she cant learn

Our nanny is the only one not really affected by sleep deprivation as her room is up in the roof, on a different level. We have asked in case it is in an issue but she says she cant hear him so we assume she gets reasonable sleep.