Granny childminders

[JosieZ]

I was listening to the news about MPs continuing to be able to employ family members, when originally there had been talk of banning it, and thought, 'well, it's probably the human rights convention that makes it impossible to discriminate against the family of someone.'
Private Companies can discourage (or possibly ban) employment of other family members but it would surely be discrimination to make a government law against it (unless there is true justification eg paedophiles working with children).

Yet there seems to be a law against someone claiming tax credits against childminding pay given to their mother or mother-in-law ie the grannies of the children, unless the granny also childminds another non-related child.

So I am wondering how they can discriminate against this tiny section of the population?
In fact I am wondering if it is illegal according the European Convention of Human Rights.

I may not have explained the tax credit bit correctly but my daughters are of an age to start families soon and it will cost me alot to travel to them and I will lose pay so to penalise me so that we cannot claim benefits as I am a Granny seems unfair.

My mum is in the same position. I haven't got time right now but there is a grandparents pressure group you might be able to google. I read it in the paper but haven't got the time this weekend to look it up. I'll keep a tab on the thread and see how your doing?
chin up

Parents who use other family members as a form of childcare cannot claim the childcare elements. The childcare they use HAS to be a registered childcare provision - ie a registered childminder.
g'parents can register as childminders but they have to do all the gubbins that goes with it.
don't know if that is fair or not tbh, part of me, as a registered childminder says yes fair do's but if a parent chooses to use and pay a family member i think they should be able to claim the childcare - but then that family member should be classed as self employed - like us minders are, paying tax, NI etc.

I am probably not in the best frame of mind to answer this and am waffling nonsense - sorry

I think the rules re tax credits and relatives looking after children are very fair. It would be wide open to abuse if they could be claimed by anybody claiming a family member was looking after their child. People could simply keep the tax payers money.

OP, nobody is banning care by relatives so no discrimination is going on. There are simply rules in place re tax credits childcare assistance, if people want to claim benefits from tax payers money then they have to be prepared to follow the criteria set.

As has been said, Grandparents can go through the registration process and become registered cm's and then can be paid by tax credits. What I think is unfair is that they then have to look after other children as well as their own grandchildren. If they fail to do so Ofsted can de-register them.

I think it is fair. The Government are trying to increase the quality of care given to children, and to ensure that some sort of standards of care are met. Registered Child Care providers are regulated and inspected to ensure that the standard of care is good. To encourage parents to use this provision tax credits are paid as it is recognised that regulated provision is generally more expensive.

Since childminders themselves can't claim credits for minding their own child, even though that child is taking up a fulltime place, I think it only right that grandparents should be expected to register and mind other children if they want to claim tax credits.

I think what the post is refering to is that looking after children is expensive. That if she is paid expenses this will affect her benefits. I think if I pay my Mum weekly expenses, the benefit office will assume this is an wage which it is not.

Would I be a million miles off the mark if I said I suspect this has to do with the employment status of the registered-CM-GP?

Most CM are self-employed, but to be self-employed means that you must have more than one client (amongst other requirements) - so GPs who become registered CM in order that their own DC can claim childcare tax allowance/credits, must have at least one other mindee, or they're not self-employed...

thinks

My complaint was really that the grandparent must mind another child as well as the grandchild.
I don't have prob with grandparents having to become qualified and registered childminders. I felt the rule that they must mind another child too was discriminatory if it didn't apply to other childminders but from what the above letter says all childminders must 'have more than one client'. I will have a look at employment rules for childminders and see if I can get the info there.
Thanks for the comments, I see it is more complicated than I thought.

cat64 I think she is discussing the future her kids havn't have children yet. No most grandmothers come to the child's home incur travel expenses. My Mum also shops for me, takes my little one out, entrance fees, snack out, buys food to cook for the little one extra bits and pieces. Or maybe that just my Mum but she's rarely just indoors minding.

If the Grandparent comes to the child's home to do the caring she is a nanny, not a CM. How do parent's using nannies get the tax credits, or don't they?

I think what the op is concerned about is that grandparent care is geting ignored! & families feel at the moment that if they are
united and not adding to 'Broken Britian' Taking care of their own family and beyond. Society benefits why is this not recognised. Discuss

OldLady - where did that bit of information come from - could you clarify that please:

but to be self-employed means that you must have more than one client (amongst other requirements)

I have never heard of that and I have been minding for quite some time, including periods where I have only had one child on my books - I was still self-employed and at no point was I employed by anyone else. In actual fact I know several minders who only care for 1 child for a variety of reasons - they are still self-employed and not one of them was/is employed.

Generally speaking to be s/emp a person should have client(s), however cm's have special rules which allow for 1 mindee, as if you had a few children of your own you may only be allowed to care for 1 more child under your Ofsted reg.

I was thinking of the future. No grandchildren yet.
One of my offspring lives near London 6 hours south of where I live and she and partner work shifts so finding a childminder to childmind odd days at odd times may not be easy for them - easier to call on Granny, but travel will be expensive.
As the SE is where the jobs are there is a good chance that other offspring may end up there too.
I felt it was unfair that there is no financial benefit in using Granny when there is in using a stranger.

I have looked into the grand parent thing quite substantially as my mother in law is seriously considering it, in order to be able to claim tax credits to pay a grandparent, at present the granparent must have ofsted registration, it is ofsteds stipulation that a childminder must have another mindee as well as grandchildren, this is not a tax credit thing, the tax credits office stance is that as long as the cm is ofsted registered and the cm is watching the child at there home then you can claim,even if the cm is a granparent if you employ the grandparent as a nanny its a bit different you can claim help from the tax credit office but the nanny(grandparent) must register on the ofsted register which actually nannies do not need to do, grandparents must also then be self employed and pay all there own tax etc.
however i do believe the government are looking into financially rewarding grandparents but im not sure how they plan on doing this! I dont really agree with the comment about it being unfair because childminders dont get help for looking after there own children when they take up a place!

Thanks kitkat. That answers my queries.

If ofsted requires that the mindee has other children as well as grandchild I wonder how they justify it. I'm sure they will claim that the welfare of the child is at heart but seems suspect to me (ie making it harder to do so really for saving gov. money).

I can see why requiring granny-nannies to register with ofsted IS in the child's interest.

You couldn't reward childminders for looking after their own children without rewarding stay at home mums which would cost too much tax payer's money.

pippin26, I see someone has already clarified that CMs are exempt from that requirement. But generally, you cannot be "self-employed" if you have only one customer/client/whatever who takes up all your time, because they're dictating your terms & conditions etc - this is actually to protect "you", because employees have many more rights than the self-employed.

But as I said, the whole thing makes my head explode.

You only have to be "open" to other non related children, CMs have a difficult enough time filling spaces as it is, you simply cannot put a restriction on it saying there has to be one other, it doesn't work like that. One day you can be full, the next week down to just one.

I don't think you need to have more than one mindee at a time. Some childminders have several children of their own and only one "space", but they will have, or at least be open to, a number of children from different families over an extended period. That is how they differ from Grandparents who are only open to care for their own relatives. Childminders also have to meet requirements to be open to children/families of different cultures and/or with special needs. There are of course grandparents who would meet that criterion, but I suspect most would not.

Sorry if this has been said, read part but not all the thread!.....If you go to the child's home, your are a NANNY and not a CM. In order to get Tax Credits for a nanny, I believe the nanny needs to be Ofsted Registered. So couldn't a grandparent register as the child's 'nanny' instead and therefore claim? I may be totally wrong but I'm sure my friend (nanny) registered so the parent could get the childcare element of tax credits?

Btw, I'm a CM so don't know much about the nanny side. I do have a childminder friend who is a grandparent herself and registered for that reason but also benefits from the income the extra children bring.