Step this way nanny experts for todays obscure nannying question

[gizmo]

When even Google can't help: ask the Hive Mind.

Oh mighty Mumsnet, can anyone tell me if there is a limit to the number of families that can share a nanny?

I'm currently in a concurrent nanny share with a nice family (let's call them family B), hosted in my house. However, I'm pregnant again (with my 3rd) so long term childcare arrangements are going to have to change.

I'd like to keep my nanny long term, my nanny share partner would like to keep her on until the end of the year, so we are considering changing the arrangement when I go on maternity leave.

Our thoughts were that during my maternity leave she would work for me two days a week as a nanny/mothers help. The other three days a week she'd be working from family B's house, looking after their two. However, this means quite a shift in childcare hours for family B and to afford it, they'd like to share our nanny with family C, whose children would be looked after in their house.

All a bit complicated, but such is life. We'd register as three separate employers I think, and this is where my concerns arise. I'm sure I read somewhere that a nanny cannot have more than 2 employers - 3 or more and she is a childminder, regardless of whether she is working in her own home. This makes sense when you realise that each employer for the nanny will have their own employers NIC allowance, so 3 or more starts to make a hole in the tax take from a nanny's employment.

However, I can't find chapter and verse on this anywhere. Has anyone come across this issue before? Where do I stand?

Ah, I should know better than to pit my obscure question against the attractions of chatting with Esther...

Esther shmester...

I'mnot sure, but I thought the rule involved looking after three families children at the same time. And it sounds like she only has two at one time. I'm not sure though. Someone else will hopefully stop chatting with Esther and come assist you.

Well I'm going to have to come up with a more interesting thread if I want to compete.

Thanks Strix: yes you're right, the arrangement would be 2 days a week at my house, looking after me and my two older boys, then 3 days a week at Family B's house, looking after their 2 and the extra child from Family C.

She is going to look after you, Gizmo? Aren't you a grown up?

I'm contemplating reverting to oooo, about 3.5 for the duration of my maternity leave. I think it might be relaxing .

BTW, I like your new disguise Strix, took me a while to connect you with your old name.

That would be two separate employments, the 2 days at your house she would be employed by you, the other 3 days employed jointly by B and C. There would only be 2 lots of NI allowances.

In your current, concurrent arrangements (!) you and B are joint employers and there should be only one lot of NI allowances.

Really Mr Anchovy?

Because we've had separate employment contracts and been separate employers for over a year now. When we started the arrangement it was recommended by Nannytax (I think) as the most effective way to manage tax affairs.

Oh crap, if it's changed we could be in all sorts of poo .

But it's good news about the two separate employments: that certainly makes sense.

It may well have been recommended as the most tax efficient solution (I bet it means you pay more to the payroll agency too), that doesn't mean that it is right or would be interpreted by an HMRC inspector as fitting the facts.

In practice, I am not aware of HMRC investigating the facts of a nanny share in detail.

Ah, no, I'm doing payroll myself and set up the arrangements about a year ago. I think I may be guilty of not keeping up to date with the latest developments in the tax regulations . So the sooner we end this set up the better!

MrA is best for advice regarding the taxation side of things... so will leave him to that one.

I'll pick up on the legal bit:

One of my favourite documents is The Childcare (Exemptions from Registration) Order 2008 - scroll down to Exempt Childminding and you will find,
3(1)(a)(ii)
a child or children for particular parents (?the first parents?) and, in addition, for a child or children for different parents (?the second parents?), wholly or mainly in the home of the first parents or the second parents or in both homes;

Which means:
If a nanny cares for a child or children of Parents A (the first parents) and for a child or children of Parents B (the second parents) then it's fine.

So two days a week, nanny would work for ParentsA (that's you) and ParentsB.
On the other three days, nanny work work for ParentsB and ParentsC.

What would not be possible is the care of the children from ParentsA, ParentsB and ParentsC all at the same time. Though that would be possible whilst on an outing, as the care then is not based at any of the homes. The nannies insurance will limit the number of children for whom they can care at the same time.

Oh Nannynick, the Motherlode. With the actual legislation.

Thank you thank you thank you. Looks like our arrangements qualify as a nannying contract. That is a relief - didn't fancy an ofsted inspection on my home, I must say!

I think I will have to ring our local tax office and clarify what to do WRT the joint/separate employers issue: sounds like I've made a balls up. Booo.

When we nanny-shared we were advised to be 2 seperate employers with 2 ni allowances ( was about 3 years ago though).
Also agree that your situation is allowable since only 2 families share at any one time

agree as long as doesnt have more than 2 familys on any one day to care for, and children doesnt go over 7 in total then all should be fine

i did a nanny share for three families and it sound confusing but it simple.i earned one wage which came out of one bank account shared by the three mums i had four children sometimes i had five in evening. the parents can then do one wage slip and have to gre onthe days you all need her and hoilday needs to be allowed to be argreed by two main families. if the other families need her more they pay more towards her wage until you need her more again and you should be given contribution to you energy bills and food if children mainly looked after at yours. you all need to draw a rota timetable when you all need her to make it work and work work out a deal where if she takes it on she gets a small bonus at christmas made up by all three of you