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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

childcare

9 replies

kathvixen · 18/01/2010 19:56

can friends look after each others kids whilst at work. concerned since the two police women got in trouble.

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BoysAreLikeDogs · 18/01/2010 20:02

hmmm not sure

The minister, I forget his name, said that private arrangements should not be interefered with but OFSted have yet to move on this

Nick is the expert in this field, I expect he'll be along later to give you more info

frakkinaround · 18/01/2010 21:22

Registration would be compulsory if you looked after the other child in your own home (childminding) but not if you went to hers (nannying) and vice versa.

Care in the home of the child (whose parent isn't present) is currently unregulated so you'd be okay if you went to hers while she worked and she came to yours when you did.

nannynick · 18/01/2010 22:27

The legislation does not appear to me to have been changed, so the 2 hour rule will still apply as will the lack of any definition for the term Reward. I expect this is so that the regulator can decide in future what cases they wish and don't wish to pursue.

As Frakkinaround says, if you care for the child at the child's own home... then it is un-regulated. That would be the best way forward.

MrAnchovy · 18/01/2010 22:50

Over-cautious advice I think.

As stated in this press release, genuine reciprocal childcare arrangements were never intended to fall within the legislation and any attempt by Ofsted to enforce in such cases would be opposed.

nannynick · 18/01/2010 23:23

?It has never been our intention to intervene in these kinds of arrangements between parents and friends.? - but that is what they DID do... so they could do so again.

While I admit I am over cautious, until legislation is amended such that it says something like Financial Reward, then Government can change they view on this. If a child is seriously injured or dies in the care of someone who was acting as a childminder but wasn't being paid, then would the Government decide to change their mind on this? We don't know but I feel it's possible.

What happens with bartering? That isn't financial. It is however Reward. As in exchange for providing a service (childcare) you get something (could be meat, if the child's parent worked as a butcher). It would still be an arrangement between parents but it would also in my view be For Reward. So what then... does that fall under the regulations or not?

So the over-cautious nannynick suggests that care is provided at the child's own home until such time that the legislation is clarified. Searching OPSI I cannot locate any document which mentions reciprocal childcare.

MrAnchovy · 19/01/2010 00:04

No Nick, the government did not interfere, an individual Ofsted inspector did, Oftsted were told that they shouldn't do that and they mustn't do it again.

You correctly identify that giving meat in exchange for childcare would be reward; and would therefore be regulated childcare (if it met the other criteria). That is why Ed Balls' letter refers specifically and only to reciprocal child care, ie looking after each others children, not anything else.

You are coming at this from the wrong end Nick. According to your cautious view of the world, my 6 year old son can't have his friends round to play because I am not a childminder. That is clearly nonsense, so where do you think the line should be drawn? It has to be drawn somewhere, and Ofsted have been told that it needs to be drawn the other side of reciprocal childcare.

You won't find anything on OPSI because there has been no amendment to the statute, but Nick you need to understand that there is more to the law than what is written in statute. According to the the Easter Act 1928, Easter Sunday is 10 April 2010 in England, but this law is not enforced because it would not be in the public interest to enforce it. You could say the same is true of much of the current governments legislation, but as far as reciprocal child care is concerned the government has made its position clear.

Changing its mind in future? And do what, get Ofsted to issue enforcement notices against people for doing what the govermnent had said they could do? No right-minded court would uphold such an action, and fortunately the independence of the courts in England and Wales (and elsewhere in the UK, but that is not relevant here) ensures that they are, at least to this extent, of the right mind.

Nick, in this case the people have won and the nanny state has lost. It would be a tragedy if we were to be so subserviant as to act as though we had lost regardless!

MrAnchovy · 19/01/2010 00:08

And to come back to the original post, yes friends can look after each others kids whilst at work, the two police women did not get into trouble because the government intervened.

nannynick · 19/01/2010 07:16

The day MrA and I agree on this will probably never come

So the question was:
"can friends look after each others kids whilst at work."

To which given that there is no further detail to that, the answer is Yes they can. Problems however develop if there is a form of payment.

Also, in the letter between Ed Balls and Christine Gilbert (12 Oct 2009) it says:
"where there are no payments made between them and where the motivation is one of mutual aid."

kathvixen - if you care for your friends child for 2.5 days per week and in return your friend cares for your child for 2.5 days per week, then I feel that's fine as it meets the "no payments" AND "mutual aid".

nannynick · 19/01/2010 07:54

Should really point out that neither I nor MrA are legally trained and that whatever we post on mumsnet must not be considered to be legal advice.
If you need to do so, please consult a lawyer.

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