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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Extra days off for nannies?

27 replies

WashwithCare · 10/01/2010 09:05

Another daft lassie question.... would really appreciate views and wondering what other families do about this.

Ok, so our Nanny looks after one 3 yr old, 30 hours over 3 days, and her contract states she gets 5 bank holidays and 4 weeks hols (2 we pick and 2 she picks). The contract is just the standard one from Nanny tax - but assume this is what most nannies get?

Anyway, we tend to end up spending a lot more than 4 weeks away from home. I don't want to take a nanny with us on hols - so always end up giving more like 6 weeks plus BHs.. (on full pay obviously!)...

When DD was younger, if I was at home (i.e. not working) I would tend to get nanny to come to work, as this would give me some time to get on with other stuff while she played with the baby/fed her etc. However, now that DD is nearly 4, she is so self-sufficient, that it doesn't really seem necessary, and having our nanny there in fact feels more of an invasion on family time than anything.

On occasion, I do use the odd day to have an adult day with my H or a friend, but if I'm off, I don't really want to spend all the time away from DD. So I just ended up telling nanny not to bother coming in - so she got an xtra week off this xmas - so we are now heading towards 7 weeks leave for the year and mounting.

A nanny is quite an expense, so this doesn't feel like great value (esp as she then went on to take snow days immediately after xmas, which I also paid) - but it did seem a bit petty to say, come in and do half an hour of ironing, and make some spag bol sauce to freeze...

One thing I would find useful would be some evening babysitting - would it be fair to swap xtra days off for babysitting?

What do other people do? So far I've just racked it up as one of those things of having a nanny....

OP posts:
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snickersnack · 10/01/2010 09:13

I think most nannies probably end up with slightly more holidays than their contract states for the reasons you say. I know ours does. With a new nanny, I'd suggest a new contract possibly with a slightly lower daily rate though in truth many won't want this. For now, you're a bit stuck I think. If the contract states her days of work she's within her rights not to babysit or to work different/extra days. If she's happy to, that's fine, but I don't think you can expect her to.

KnitterInTheNW · 10/01/2010 09:13

Thw way I've always knon it to work is, if the family take more holiday than 'their' 2 weeks or whatever, then the nanny gets paid (because she/he was available to work). If the nanny takes more than 'their' 2 weeks then they don't get paid. I don't know what to think about the snow days really, I was supposed to start a new nanny job on Wednesday, but they told me not to come as the roads were awful and they didn't want me driving on them with my DS (ho I take with me). I made it in on Thurs and Fri, and we haven't talked about what will happen about that snow day. I only work 3 days a week though, so I'd be happy to make that day up by doing 4 days one week if wanted/needed.

You could ask your nanny if she'd mind babysitting to make up some of the time she had because of snow days, but not really fair to ask her to make up extra time she had because you were off and didn't need her.

Blondeshavemorefun · 10/01/2010 10:10

i get 5weeks paid, 2weeksmy choice,2weeks family and a week at xmas - im 3 days a week like your nanny,plus all the banks hols that i work, i work mon, tue and wed, so always have 4 bh mns,depending on when 25/26dec and nyd is i may get those,but i never get gf (as i dont work fridays)

so min days a year i get is 19 and if 25/26/nyd fall on my days then i get 22days holidays - legal entitlement is 17 for 3 days

saying that my family go away alot in holidays to their holiday home, if they go away OVER their 2 weeks then i get time off and paid (as stated in my contract)

jan 09-dec09 i got 11 weeks paid holiday

personally i wouldnt swap extra days for babysitting - but thats just me - sure others would

WashwithCare · 10/01/2010 10:56

I thought this would probably be the case... I mean why would anyone swap days when they know their employer is probably going to say stay home on full pay anyway?

11 weeks - that's just amazing - there can't be many jobs where people get 11 weeks, can there? Though presumably your employer is on holiday too! Mind boggles as to what she does? Paying childcare for 52 week (iyswim) she must earn a packet to afford all that time off!

OP posts:
Blondeshavemorefun · 10/01/2010 11:56

very true - its not always 11 weeks

first year was 8

but still way over my contracted holidays, and yes i am very appreicative of the extra time

mb is a director in a pr company in london

BrandyAlexander · 10/01/2010 12:16

My nanny's contract gives her 4 weeks (2 weeks her choice 2 weeks mine) and she's also contracted to work (and is paid for) a 5 day week. The reality is that she gets 6 weeks off, and she works a 4 day week - although this will soon come to an end. She recently babysat for us for the first time on a Friday night and we paid her the agreed rate. My best friend was a bit / because she didnt think that after all the perks my nanny gets that she should have accepted the money. In retrospect, I think she (best mate) probably had a point but to be honest life is too short to get about it and I will just ask family to babysit wherever possible.

drinkyourmilk · 10/01/2010 12:23

washwithcare -

I go in when my employers are home and just carry on as usual. If they are spending time with the kids then i do other things like stock the freezer, clean bath toys, sort through art cupboard etc. If i have nothing to do then they tell me to go home, or they pop out for a bit/have a nap etc and i take over again.

As far as i'm concerned I'm being paid for that time so should be working (so long as it's child related!) - so its not unreasonable to ask your nanny to do chores instead of actual childcare.

I wouldn't do babysitting to make up the time though - if i'm available and they don't use me then i get lucky. (Having said that I was ill with an infection this week and took monday off and i knew they had a busy weekend, so i offered to make up some time yesterday which they were very happy with - swings and roundabouts)

drinkyourmilk · 10/01/2010 12:28

noviceoftheday -

so you should have paid her! If she offered to do it without pay then fair enough, but it can't be expected. You choose to not use her on her work days, she doesn't refuse to come in. Please don't be angry with her.

nannynick · 10/01/2010 13:36

The contract is there I feel as a way of formally agreeing between the two parties what the working hours are and will often define the typical working day such as 8am-6pm, a guide as to the expected duties and what the pay is.

If you are choosing to provide more time off than that specified in the contract, then that is your choice. However it does not affect the amount the nanny is paid... as that has been previously agreed (an Annual Salary, which may be phrased in the contract either as annual, monthly, weekly or hourly).

You can mutually agree with your employee the occasional variation to the contract, such as could you come in an hour later but work the same number of hours. If your employee accepts that, then it's fine. If they don't want to do that for whatever reason, then the contracted hours are what is worked. In reality many nannies can be flexible to a certain extent but you need to keep in mind that they don't have to be flexible, so could insist on only working the contracted hours.

If your nanny does not have an evening commitment on one of their usual working days, then what you may be able to agree with them is that they come in to work later, say in the afternoon and then work through until late evening. That way the nanny is only making the usual trip to/from work, not any additional travel. It may not suit them to work evenings though, they may have chosen to work for you because the job you were offering was only 3 days, was only until 6pm (or whatever time it is), so you do need to ask you nanny if they would mind doing a late start, evening finish... not insist that they do it.

If you are wanting your nanny to babysit on a non-working day, then that certainly could incur additional costs... as it's quite a bit different to the contracted terms. Moving the working hours on the odd occasion is one thing, moving the working day completely is quite another. However you may find your nanny would accept it... you won't know until you ask.

Snow Days - you didn't need to pay them, they could have gone down as part of the annual leave allowance... either as your choice, or nannies choice, probably better 1 of each.

I quite often get to leave work early now, as one of my bosses often works from home and wants to spend time with their children without me pottering around. That is their choice and they do not expect me to make up that time. However, if they are late home one evening, then I don't expect extra pay for that (though sometimes they do give it), as it's swings and roundabouts... sometimes I leave work early, sometimes they get delayed and arrive home late.

If your childcare requirements have changed, such that the working hours are not now near the 30 hours, then you need to review the contract and come up with something you are both happy with. That may not be possible... so you may find that your nanny will leave for another job if you reduce the hours.

Perhaps your solution to this is to agree with your nanny on a permanent change to the contract, so that if say working days are Mon-Wed, that on a Tuesday the hours are something like 1pm-11pm. Then you always go out somewhere on a Tuesday evening, be that a restaurant, cinema, theatre etc. Some parents like having a regular evening out. There may be times you don't go out... then your nanny may finish early. I've known parents to book an evening class and then have dinner after that... so they had a weekly thing to go to.

Communicate with your nanny, rather than with us Tell her what your thoughts are and ask her for her opinions.

WashwithCare · 10/01/2010 14:06

You have some good ideas there Nannynick - esp like the idea of a later start and an evening out...

TBH novice - I see your best friend's point... yes, technically she is not meant to babysit on Friday evenings... but if she is routinely paid to work all Friday day, and then you on the one occassion need to her babysit that evening.... well it seems a little rough....

I suppose the problem is, NannyNick, is we don't really want to pay for time that we don't use - it's just that it often seems the only reasonable way to structure things.

Drinkyourmilk - you just sound peachey... the reason I wouldn't ask my nanny to come to work is that she would require constant feeding with tasks to do - which would drive me mad. The last time I had a half day, she ended up sitting at the table chatting to my MIL while I cooked the breakfast for the extended family....

Having a bit of a gripey day, but I do think most of the stuff goes against me - perhaps I am too lenient, and I should toughen up... but nanny phones in sick - I pay her... Nanny arrives late - I pay her.. I arrive home late - I pay her.. I give her xtra holiday - I pay her - snow days... I pay her.. I send her home early... I pay her....

Gee... maybe I shoudl be a nanny (!!!??!!)

OP posts:
Blondeshavemorefun · 10/01/2010 14:21

how often do you have days off?

my mb/db have had a few extra days off before xmas and i just went in as usual - did slightly shorter hours, normally 8-6.30 - did more 8.30 (to take to school) - 5/6 - went when tea was cooked - but did my usual day to day activites/had friends round/went out etc

the snow has caused some disruption to some nannys/familys but hopefully will be a one off this year/if not decade

if mb wanted to have day with children, rare as only works 3 days so has 4 normally iykwim - then i dont go in

novice - as NN says you both signed a contract agreeing hours/days - your nanny was free to work, but you didnt want her, so you cant ask her to make up hours/free babysit on her time

nannynick · 10/01/2010 15:40

"we don't really want to pay for time that we don't use" - that's the crunch of it really isn't it. Unfortunately childcare paid by the hour, as and when needed is virtually non existent (only things I can think done like that are a Creche and a Babysitter).

Given your other thread about your nanny not doing much domestic things, getting frozen pizza, there are more things that are indicating that this nanny, or type of care is not ideal for you. Maybe you need to evaluate what your requirements are going forward, maybe there are other solutions.

callaird · 10/01/2010 17:01

If I had more than my contracted 5 weeks plus bank holidays off, I would be happy to go into work and do odd jobs that I don't usually get time to do with the children around.

Sorting through their clothes, bagging up too small clothes and storing/get rid of.

Sorting through their toys, fixing what I can, throw away what is broken/unusable, storing grown out of toys if required or taking to hospital/charity shop.

Doing some batch cooking for the freezer.

Doing a family shop so they had plenty in when they got home.

Washing all bedding, including, mattress protectors, duvets, pillows etc, getting it dry and back on the bed.

A spring clean of nursery and playroom (have even vaxed carpets in my last job, when I had had 6 weeks holiday in 4 months)

I have even sanded and revarnished the kitchen work surface in my last job when I had soooo much holiday.

But, having said that, I would only do this if I had not booked to go away myself and generally the jobs I do take maybe 2 short days so I still have a lot of time off, and my bosses appreciated me and never expected it! I did it because they treated me well and I wanted to show them that I appreciated that!

WashwithCare · 10/01/2010 18:15

Callaird - I think you have the nail on the head... I think it's not so much the money and the time off - it's just the feeling that the nanny does the minimum possible... If my nanny spent 30 minutes doing a wee household child related task every day - or offered to come in and do something on an extra day hols - or make up the snow day... I might even say "it's ok -don't worry"

Thanks Nick - I am deeply opposed to group childcare for under 3s... so that was the reason I wanted a nanny. We did try switching to a nursery between nannies, but I think after being looked after at home for so long, she didn't think much of a 10 hour day in a nursery.... So after a week, we went back to the nanny route.

I'm not really that gripey - just sound gripey on here. DD loves her nanny and that is the main thing...

Since posting here, I do wonder if a lot of it is my fault. I take the attitude of being fair with people assuming that it works both ways.. so I say, don't worry - be safe, I'll pay the snow day... or come home with a little box of chocs or flowers for DD to give her, or tell her to leave early, or take an xtra day off or whatever, and then I expect her to say... I didn't really have much to do today, so I made up a big batch of spag bol or cleaned the fridge or something... But she probably thinks, mb gives me chocs and xtra days off - she must be well happy!

PS - wot is MB - all I can think of is MummyBear lol

OP posts:
Missus84 · 10/01/2010 18:19

I'm available on my contracted days - it's up to my boss if she wants me in or not. I won't swap for my day off though.

Blondeshavemorefun · 10/01/2010 18:22

mb mum boss
db dad boss
dc darling charges/children

K75 · 10/01/2010 20:24

Personally, just think that's the way it goes and mine always gets more holiday. (Contract is 5 weeks; usually more like 7 or more)

Quite frankly I am grateful to get the extra time with my kids and don't always want someone else around; although we usually do one or 2 adult days a year.

I think it's part of the cost and see it as sunk funds; however, I also believe being a top quartile employer (good pay, benefits etc.) means they don't quit and you don't incur the cost and stress of finding someone new.

As others have said your other irritations are worse and if you can fix those it will prob annoy you less.

nannynick · 10/01/2010 20:38

giving chocs, extra days off, yes... could imply that you are happy. Stop the chocs, and flowers!

I didn't say nursery plus your DD isn't under 3 .

"DD loves her nanny and that is the main thing" ... is it? Children adapt to a new carer far easier often than you might expect.
Do you love your nanny anywhere near as much as your DD? It doesn't sound from your posts that you do.

Doing the minimum these days isn't enough, your nanny needs to buck their ideas up a bit. Question is, how do you get them to do that? Maybe have micro goals. Week 1 could be Nanny puts one load of washing on.

WashwithCare · 10/01/2010 21:15

Nick - we have only had this nanny for a few months... as you can see, I'm not happy with her, and haven't been pretty much from day 1 - but I think on reflection I have a gentle encouragement first, sacking people next approach to managing ... bit of a 2 bit pony, I'm afraid. At first I was hoping she would settle in to the role, and most people respond to general encouragement in my exp...

I'm relunctant to have all the stress of hiring/changing again. Her positives are that she is very focused on DD, plays and engages with her, DD is settled and excited and positive about her, and she will do things if you explicitly ask her to do them, she is cheerful and bright, has some good ideas around arts and crafts and day trips and the negatives are I can't really think of anything else positive to say -but most of my gripes would be the dom stuff, laziness and my suspicion that she doesn't brush her teeth. Ho hum... keep changing my mind about whether she gets the important stuff right... or whether it is not working because I'm so clealry hacked off!

OP posts:
WashwithCare · 10/01/2010 21:16

Thanks Blonde.. I think I prefer MummyBear

OP posts:
WashwithCare · 10/01/2010 21:18

k75 - my husband also considers it a sunk cost, and says I just need to think through whether nanny will make day easier or be a hindrance, and not even think about the cost..

I think you are both right tbh... I suppose I am just feeling in a grumpy mood because of other annoyances...

OP posts:
BrandyAlexander · 10/01/2010 21:21

I know that my nanny was entirely entitled to be paid for the babysitting and it didn't actually occur to me not to pay it or to even to say anything about it. Had she offered to not take the money, I would still have paid her in full, not least because she is contractually entitled to it, it would have been the right thing to do, and also if things ever went sour, I would never want to have any ambiguity over this kind of thing. As I said earlier "life is too short" to worry about it given the flexibility and benefits of my nanny more outweigh any question of this one night of babysitting. I guess if OP has other question marks over her nanny then I can fully understand that it would niggle more.

nannynick · 10/01/2010 23:36

WWC - do you think she can change? If you set mini goals, do you think that she will manage to meet those goals, thus take on things that you feel are part of her duty?
The cost and agro of getting someone new is a pain... so look at if this person is able to improve. Trouble is, you say you haven't been happy since day 1... it's not a case of you being happy initially then things getting slacker as time went on.

gingernutlover · 11/01/2010 08:07

WWC when you say that she will do things which you specifically ask her to then why don't you? Leave her a list each day,maybe invest in a little whiteboard for the kitchen, things to be done everyday and things just for that day.

As for the paying her for days when you tell her not to come in, well thats your choice isnt it, when you employ someone you have to pay them. My dd goes to nursery and we have to pay for snow days, and for days we choose not to send her and for our holidays - no different as far as I can see.

As for the asking her to swap her days or hours to suit yourself, I think this is unreasonable of you unless you agreed it at the start. And if you ask her now she may feel she has to agree.

Strix · 11/01/2010 09:15

I think it sounds like the problem is not so much the pay and commitment of having a nanny. But more that she does not take the initiative to do the odd jobs, and you are too nice to require them. If I were in your position I would not feel guilty about asking her to do all the child related errands, like sourcing b-day party gifts, getting new school clothes, tidying up the toys, batch cooking, etc. There is so much child realted stuff to do as they enter school I think getting her to do the bulk of it will make that nanny bill worth your while.