Any help to prevent an argument with my childminder?

[itsmeolord]

Hello. Me again......
My childminder had an accident which led to her being unavailable for work, ie off sick, for the three week period leading up to Christmas break.
She told me she was "unavailable" until after Christmas. I had to work and had to pay someone else to cover that.
I had to ask her to pay me the money back for the initial three weeks as I usually pay her a month in advance and I could not afford to pay an emergency cover after I had already paid her.
Her contract states she is unpaid for any sick leave but receives half pay for any holiday.

She had already had 5 weeks holiday up to the 21st of Dec including summer holidays, odd days and almost three weeks in October.

She called me this morning and asked me when I am going to pay her for the Christmas holiday. She told me that she always has Christmas off. "all the other mums have paid her", I replied that she was over the holiday limit and in any case was off sick, not on holiday.

She is saying no, she was only unavailable as it was holiday.....

I'm really cross, I feel like she is pulling a bit of a fast one here.

Any tips on how to discuss this calmly but firmly tonight? I don't want to lose her as a minder but this is winding me up now.
It will cost me almost £200 on top of the £560 that I had to pay to emergency cover because she said she was unable to work.

get shot, she sounds awful

oh dear, sounds like it has already become an argument really, not sure if you cn avoid it. I would say, be very sure of your facts, does it state how much holiday she is entitled to on your contract? if its 4 weeks it sounds like she is only 1 week over on holidays? You should still pay half fees for xmas as that is what you originally agreed on contract, regardless of whether she is ill or not, so maybe negotiate the money back for the half fees for that 1 week?

dizzydixies thats not very fair

sillyMillyMummy am not so sure - it sounds like the trust has been broken here by the CM and the fact that she is not fulfilling her contract.

she is not phoning the OP to discuss it with her but trying to shame her into paying by saying all the other mothers have already paid

It sounds like the op is not happy with the level of service she has received, or not in this case, and that she is no longer sure that her CM is being entirely honest with her

I would politely give notice and find someone else - is that better??

yes thanks

Sorry, I have not been clear. She has had 5 weeks holiday already.
Her contract states a maximum of 5 weeks per year.
With the christmas period she wants paying for that would be 7 weeks holiday.
Our "year" runs from the first day back to school after the christmas break for contractual purposes.

I want to try to avoid giving notice if I can, I only need a minder for another 18 months approx so don't want to uproot dd. Also she really likes going to the childminder, she is lovely with the kids, just not very organised.....

sorry, my point was that the only thing the cm was not fulfilling contract wise MAY have been too many holidays (OP yet to confirm) whereas OP was definately not fulfilling her contract as she hasnt paid for CM holidays as agreed when contract was signed. I am sure the CM did not mean to have an accident and then be unavailable for work, unfortunately its smething that as a parent sending a child to a cm you have to understand, if the cm isnt available then you have to find other care, its why more than one type of childcare exists. She would have already been paying for her xmas holidays, so why should she not pay because she was ill? she wouldnt have been available anyway.

ok, in which case, i would politely state that you presumed this xmas holiday would be unpaid as her contract states 5 weeks, that she has already taken. I send out invoices every month with holidays stated on, to avoid issues like this, hope you get it sorted.

If her allowance is 5 weeks including Christmas then she doesn't have a leg to stand on. Cleary state what the contract says and the fact she's already had it all - have a list of when it was taken if she's really disorganised then she can check it later. Do you also have any proof of her saying she was "unavailable" rather than on holiday or specifically off sick or was it just a verbal thing? She can't retrospectively declare holidays - my CM contract says CM has to give 2 weeks notice for example in order to be paid.

I would keep referring back to the contract here to keep things as professional as possible and stop this decending into a row. No one can argue with the contract. Well, they can, but they wont get very far!

Is it worth putting something in writing?

Dear x

My understanding is that our contractual year runs from the first day back at school in January ie from the 4th of Jan 2009 to 3rd Jan 2010.

My understanding from our contract is that you will take 5 paid weeks holiday per contractual year.

According to my calculations you took
a
b
c
d
e
in paid holidays which is 5 weeks so any additional holidays taken would be unpaid as per the contract.

If I have misunderstood either the contract or the paid holiday you have taken in the last year please clarify it urgently so we can resolve the December invoice.

Kind regards

If Christmas was scheduled as holiday, as part of the 5 weeks, then it should be paid at half pay as per contract.

If it was over and above the 5 weeks, then (with the exception, presumably, of Public Holidays) what would she have done if she had not been off sick?

As for what to do, I would take the line of "I am confused here - could you document for me the 5 weeks you had in the last contractual year, and what you have booked for the coming year - because according to my records we had already paid 5 weeks holiday at half pay....."

It must have been tough for her to have no income running up to Christmas, but if that is how her contract is written, then it is not your problem.

Does the contract state 5 weeks or 5x7 days ie 35 days.......

Could it be that other people have different start dates for contracts so they do have to pay her because she has not taken 5 weeks in their contractual year?

SLeighgirl's letter suggestion is good. But, I fear your relationship has already broken down since she is obviously trying to pull a fast one on you. And you might find 18 months is a VERY long time with a childminder you can't trust.

Also, I would verify that comment about all the parents having paid with the other parents. Have they really? Did she lie to them too?

Based on the holiday year start date, list all the times you feel your CM has been on holiday. Then list any additional time they have been unavailable due to sickness.

Something like this spreadsheet

"I had to ask her to pay me the money back for the initial three weeks as I usually pay her a month in advance and I could not afford to pay an emergency cover after I had already paid her."
So did she give you 3 weeks money back? This complicates things I feel as you in effect owe her for 3 weeks.

Why does the OP owe the CM for 3 weeks Nannynick? She was unavailable for work for those 3 weeks and her contract states she doesn't get paid for sick leave. I don't really understand why the op wasn't entitled to her money back for those 3 weeks. I'm probably missing something really obvious of course

The CM shouldn't be entitled for holiday pay over Christmas if she has already had her holiday entitlement over the course of the year. I can't see this ending well though if she is trying to guilt trip you into paying because 'all the other mums' have.

Oh fgs, all the 'entitled' and 'entitlements' in my post! I hope it makes sense

That 3 weeks is causing me confusion. I feel that needs to be clarified... if the contract is such that sick leave is unpaid, then the CM giving the money back is fine. However the payment for Janaury would have been due in full beginning of December and payment for February is now due as it's beginning of January.

So, was the January fee paid in full in December? Was the 3 weeks paid back from that payment? Was the February fee paid in full beginning of January?

See I'm getting confused... need it clarified if all the monthly payments have been made.
If all the monthly payments have been made as per the agreed schedule and the 3 weeks of sickness paid back, then it just leaves the amount of holiday taken over the past year to be discussed.

I see what you mean. I would have thought payment a month in advance means you pay at the beginning of the month for that whold month so the January payment should have just been paid

Very confusing right enough.

Yes, think we it clarified as to if payment a month in advance means payment an entire month in advance (so payment 1st December for childcare starting 1st Jan) or if it's payment at being of month.

May of course make no difference but it may help to show this sort of thing on a spreadsheet so that the CM can see that they have been paid all the dues fees as per the agreed contract.

I think payment on 1st of Jan for services rendered over the course of Jan is payment one month in advance. Payment on Dec. first is two months.

I think this is the story:

CM has used all of her holiday. She was sick and unable to work. She gave the money back because she was unable to work and as per contract not entitled to pay. She then changed her story and said she was on hol so she could get half pay and has gone back to Mum asking for this half pay (after she gave it back!)

I would be friendly but firm. If CM gets stroppy, I would encourae her to serve me notice, which I would only accept in writing.

god this is all so complicated and 5 weeks annual leave.. paid.. bloody hell.. where do you all live.. please can I work there.

I think the simpler contract the better for all, as everyone understands where they are.

I dont get paid for any sickness leave,as a cm I am self employed!!! I dont get paid for my annual leave either.. (but thats just the way I work) every cm is different..

however its all in the contract that was presumably signed by the poster and the cm so there can be no quibble, only one person is right and the other has to pay up(or pay back) and grin and bear, or issue written notice..

Stick to your guns - she is taking the piss

OK just to clarify;

I pay each month in advance at the beginning of the month. SO I would have just oaid January. However, as she has been so unreliable, (after recent accident she was imposible to get hold of, calling on a Sunday night to say she was unavailable but well enough to ask if I fancied going out for an evening.......)I am now paying her weekly in advance.

The money I had back was due as her contract states if she is unavailable either through sickness or other circumstances not to include holiday, she is not paid.

I haven't enforced that before, she has had sick days in the past that I have just paid her for. She was not happy that I enforced it this time,there were tears.

I do think the relationship has broken down, there is a huge lack of good childcare in this area though, so whilst in an ideal world I would normally give notice, I can't do that as there are no other places available.

I think I will stick to my guns but really she has me over a barrel.

She sounds pretty unprofessional to be honest - I don't envy you having to deal with it. It sounds like she's expecting the perks of employment (such as sick pay) whilst being self employed. I think all you can do is be calm and firm and ignore any further tears etc. However I'd want to start looking hard for alternative childcare- there may be some alternatives

She sounds pretty unprofessional to be honest - I don't envy you having to deal with it. It sounds like she's expecting the perks of employment (such as sick pay) whilst being self employed. I think all you can do is be calm and firm and ignore any further tears etc. However I'd want to start looking hard for alternative childcare- there may be some alternatives