FINALLY found a CM.. but....

[Hando]

Ok, as some of you know I've been CM hunting for a while. Today I found a lady with a space as of next week. She sound snice on the phone, I've seen pics of her setting/garden, her ofsted report is great and shes really local and charges average rates.

I arranged to meet with her one day next week to talk specifics, let my dd meet her, discuss rates, holidays etc.

Anywho, I just looked at her website (wont link for obvious reasons) but she has her holiday policy on there saying that she is "legally entitled to 4 weeks paid holiday per year". For the 4 weeks she is away I will be charged full rate fees. Is that normal for CM's to do? I know she has the "legally entitled" bit wrong. I have been self employed for years and we are legally entitled to diddly squat!

So I have to pay her full fees for her 4 weeks a year holiday and find / pay someone else to have dd. Also full fees payable when i go on holiday- although this is what i understand to be pretty standard with CM;s, and understandable of course.

I personally would not agree to those conditions (am self employed too).

However I guess it depends how desperate you are. You could try negotiating but ultmately if you sign a contract saying you will pay her holidays then you will have to.

NCMA advise that you charge for 4 weeks paid holiday but no, she is not legally entitled to it However, it is in her t&c's so if you sign the contract, you agree to pay!

Either pay and spread it out over the whole year or keep on searching for another CM with a different policy.

I have 4 weeks holiday a year unpaid. Think NCMA advise cms to charge, ( not legal) but I dont. I do however charge parents for their holiday though..

If you have signed the contract you have agreed to her terms and conditions though, so stick with her or give notice.

just a thought, most people do get paid for their annual leave though, would it be so financially crippling for you to bother to give notice and begin your search for a cm again?

(My first post here I think, but have been a member for some time. I've been a CM for 19 years. I have never and would never charge for my holidays. As has already been said we are legally entitled to nothing, being self employed. I take four weeks unpaid each year. I charge half fees for parents holidays too if they are in school hols; I know that isn't usual except as a retainer but I find I get more time with my own DD in the holidays by doing so. It means I often have less children in the holidays too so making outings easier.

My first CM had 4 weeks paid hol (which I was happy with), my current one has half pay for holidays, and we pay half for pre-arranged time off. I think paid leave is becoming more standard. If you do decide to go for her, make sure she advises you of her leave dates as far in advance as possible. I just used to arrange my leave for the same times to make things easier - was generally standard times like summer and Xmas.

she is not legally entitled but once you sign a contract you agree to her terms and if that is what she does and gets parents to pay then good for her

i would ask her about it, and if she wont chnage then find a different cm

It's nota legal requirement as others have said - but like any se person, she can choose her terms, & you can choose whether to pay them. Round here it varies - but I'd have said 1-2 weeks on full or half pay for hols is more standard.

NB MOst cms will charge will full pay if you're away at times when they are available - think that's pretty inevitable. Agree with Effie that it's worth asking her how far in advance she books hols/can tell you dates, and when they usually are.

If you like her., it might be worth asking if she'd consider half pay/two weeks - again, like any SE person, there's nothing to stop you haggling

I would want to ensure she only takes her holidays in the school holidays as when your children get older its easier to get cover with holiday clubs.
I don't charge for my holidays and always take them in the school hols, but I charge full fees if a child doesn't attend for any reason hols, illness etc.
It bugs me that so many childminders think they are entitled, they are not but if its in their contract you do have to pay if you agree to it. The ncma seem to think we should ask for it, personally I charge slightly more per hour than some others as it works out better for me and the parents.

I dont understand why this cm should feel entitled to pay holidays as she is self-employed. In my aera, some cms charge up till 6 weeks holidays, I guess they feel they can as we are not a lot of cm in our aera. I do not charge for holidays as I think my freedom is priceless but I do charge them for their holidays full price.

whether or not it's acceptable to you might depend on her fees - perhaps she charges a lower hourly rate than she woudl otherwise, to even out her income over her holidays? Over the course of one year, you might end up paying the same as another CM who doesn't charge for their holidays but has a higher hourly rate.

I haqve not signed a contract yet, I have just seen it on her website, we are due to meet her next week.

I will definitely approach her and question it to see if she will negotiate to 2 weeks perhaps. I too would try and take my holidays at the same time as her but that may not be possible. Then i'd be paying full price for 8 weeks a year that I'm not using.

If she is taking her 4 weeks in school holiday time and won't negotiate I think I'll still go with her as she is lovely. I'l have to pay nearly £50 a day for school holiday club at the leisure centre though - same as what she charges actually. But if she plans on taking them outside of holidays we have decided to not go with her as it just makes childcare impossible for us and I don't want to mess around getting a different CM just for 4 weeks a year.

I used to pay 4 weeks a year and only worked term time, it seemed pretty standard. Most of the CM refused to take holidays in school holiday time because of the prices.

DH used to use most of his AL covering CM hols.

i used to have to pay my cm 4 weeks holiday.. She basically took the whole of August off.
I also had to pay her 5 days sick - she claimed she was never sick and never took it when I signed - but in practice took the full 5 days every year.
Plus she also expected full pay for BH's and Christmas week and would pull a cats bum face whenever I mentioned it. (the BH's I never minded btw, it was everything else!).

So basically she was off about 10 weeks a year (she did 2 days a week for me) on full pay. It really did start to rile me and I was so pleased when I left her when I went on maternity again and now use a nursery for my second child. Much simpler!!

Check her sick leave policy!

agree with others.
my previous CM asked for holiday pay instead of a raise. Seemed very sensible to us and we were fine with it.
current CM has a higher hourly rate but no holiday pay.

important to check how much notice she gives of her dates. Our CM takes 4 weeks a year (1 xmas, 1 in May and 2 in august). We know when the dates are long in advance so it is not a problem for us to work around it. We usually take holiday for 3 or 4 of these weeks anyway.

I guess you could look at is as whether you would be prepared to pay 8% more in fees per hour as that is the equivalent of 4 weeks' holiday pay. You could coincide your annual leave to minimise the extra costs. Presumably she has to give you notice of her holidays .

i am a childminder but charge half fees for my holidays and 1 week free to cover and sick leave. i spread the cost over the full year so wrk out 47 weeks full fee + 4 weeks half + 1 week at 0 = 52 weeks and divide by 12 so that they pay the same every month regardless of my holidays,theres or school holidays and it give me a steady wage as my bills are the same every month regardless of any holidays taken.

I only know one childminder locally who charges for holidays. Unusual but not unheard of as, like others have said being self employed, contract is as CM sees fit (and parents happy to sign of course). Most childminders use either NCMA or Morton Michel contracts which are fairly standard and i think NCMA are now recommending CMs consider putting aid holidays in terms.

V.odd wording though "legally entitled to "

If you agree to pay her for her holidays / sick pay (which incidentally I wouldn't agree to) then you should think about asking her to commit to a notice period of said holidays (say 2 months), and also agree to maximum number holidays (say 4 weeks in any given 12 month period).

I would also ask her if she would be able to find another childminder to cover when she is on holiday.

When I used a childminder, she used to point me to another childminder whom she knew and could recommend and I would just pay that childminder and not her when she was away.

"Most self-employed people are not entitled to any employment benefits from their clients. However, if a self-employed person meets the definition of an "employee" - perhaps because the client has decided to put the person on the payroll - or the definition of a "worker", there may be entitlement to some employment and statutory benefits.
Worker is defined as somebody who works under a contract where they undertake to perform personally a task or duty.
All workers have a right to at least 5.6 weeks? paid annual leave, but you could receive more than that"

This information was taken from Direct Gov and HM Revenue customs website. Perhaps she feels she falls into this category. I do as an CM,

i dont think anybody (or would hope nobody) has a problem with a childminder taking 5.6 weeks holiday i think its the pay thing that some ppl have a problem with. i am a childminder however if i wasnt and my child went to a childminder and she took a holiday then i would no pay another childminder thats where grannies or aunties come in or i would take my holidays as the sametime and would not be any out of pocket as i would be used to paying the childminder her fees every week anyway.

Hi I am a CM too and I don't charge for my holidays as my business is closed (same as if I am sick). I am the same as Summerfruit I do charge full fee for any holiday taken by my parents/children.

Hope this helps. Call the NCMA if you have any queries.

When I started with my CM she asked for very similar terms but then I said that this was uncompetitive since it mace her more expensive than the nursery. In the end we negotiated down to us paying for her B/H. I still think that is too much. I am now having difficulties with said CM and regret that I just did not take my baby to the nursery in the first place since its actually cheaper in the long run. Although I did not pay for her holidays when she was away I had to pay somebody else or use my own A/L - now I have no A/L left and its only December. Also I found out that nursery provides all meals and nappies and reduces fees with age. If you calculate that in and combine it with the fact that nursery also will not leave you standing in the rain for 15 mins because its running a personal errand, or leave your toddler to watch telly all day long, it seems like a good idea to rethink some savings. A friends baby who is the same age as mine but goes to a nursery just seems so much better developed and more advanced overall! After about 8 months i've given the CM notice. Can;t wait!

I wouldn't have it purely for the legally entitled bit. It is wrong and sounds like she is almost bullying you in to it as you can't argue with the law.

I don't know a single CM in my area who doesn't charge for 4 weeks annual leave. I was the only one until this year when I decided to charge half fees.

From January I will be charging full fees for 4 weeks annual leave like everyone else.
One of the parents even suggested I should charge for my own holiday! -
I think it was because I wasn't taking any holiday as I couldn't afford to take the time off (think she felt sorry for me )

All my parents know and I will be giving them lots of notice so they can plan their holidays around mine so they don't have to fork out for two lots of childcare