5-year-old being VERY rude to nanny, advice needed!

[MummyDragon]

Hi,

I have been struggling with some health problems recently, so we have hired a temporary nanny, to help me at home/with the kids whilst I get better. This is purely a temporary arrangement, although we don't yet know when it will come to an end.

My DS (aged 5) is horribly rude to the nanny - makes really personal, nasty comments to her. It is upsetting to the nanny (yes, I know she's probably heard it all before, but quite frankly she shouldn't have to put up with it) and it upsets me too, as I feel guilty for having the nanny in the first place, and my DD (aged 3) is now starting to copy my DS ...

I have explained to DS that the nanny is temporary, that she is here to help me around the house, that I am still here (nanny is working alongside me rather than replacing me - she doesn't have sole charge of the kids very much, if at all), that I still love him and that I am just feeling poorly/upset about various things and that the nanny is helping me. I have explained that his behaviour is offensive, and I have tried punishing him when it happens by taking a toy away, using the naughty step (I'm a big fan of this, and it has always worked a treat in the past) but he just keeps on being rude. Examples are: "I don't want you here," "I don't want to sit next to you in the car," "I don't like you" etc etc.

Help!! What do I do?

Thank you.

P.S. This has been going on for 10 days now, and I know that DS doesn't really like the nanny (she can be a bit annoying I guess, although she is really nice!), but he has never been rude like this to someone before. And we can't get anyone else because I need very specific split shifts and she was the only person who could do them. And she isn't going to be here for ever.

Sorry you're having problems especially as nanny is there to help you out and it sounds like it's causing you extra stress.

Why doesn't your DS like the nanny? He's perfectly entitled to dislike her and if he really dislikes her then it might be worth continuing the search for a new one. I don't know your circumstances but would you be better spending the money on a cleaner/housekeeper type person, or are your problems such that you need help with the children?

Have you spoken to the nanny? How does she feel? Is there anything she thinks she could do to bond more with DS? Most experienced temporary nannies have experienced this before (although I've never had it go on for 10 days!) and have some idea of what to do.

I think the only thing that you can do is reinforce that it is not nice to say things like that to anyone, regardless of how we might be feeling inside, and make it clear that you're disciplining the behaviour and the expressimon of the feeling, not the feeling itself. When you're telling him that being rude is definitely not OK try to talk about how his rudeness makes you feel and how it might make the nanny feel as well so he can tie up the behaviour with the words and why he shouldn't say them.

He may not understand this at 5 but it's worth a shot.

Our 6yo was pretty rude to our au pair when she first arrived. We developed a sticker chart and each day when we got home we'd talk to him and au pair together re how the day had been. A good day got a star, and a bad day a black mark. If he got 7 days in a row of stars he got a 'prize' (a 15p crystal from a local craft shop!... he was delighted with this, as is v into crystals... but anyway, whatever he'll be pleased about - doesn't have to be expensive!)

Saw an improvement straight away, and now we go through the motions every few days, and keep giving the crystals weekly, but it isn't really an issue any more.

Having said that, I'm sure that it is much harder when you are around too.
Sorry that you're having to go through this. madcows
ps might want to stop saying that she is just temporary ... might make him think that if he is rude enough to her, then that'll make her go quicker!

This is nothing to do with the nanny personally IMO, or classic bad behaviour.

This nanny is symbolic that his mother is quite poorly, which he probably is finding a frightenining thought but is unable to process in a rational manner. He is taking it out on Nanny as an outlet.

I would focus less on bad behaviour or your illness and more on telling him that you are feeling so much better recently and you're going to get better etc. Try and keep upbeat (I don't know what your illness is but be as positive as possible without actually lying IYSWIM). Say that Nanny is here to have fun and help everybody so she's very kind and special etc etc.

I would send DD out with the nanny to do something fun and give DS the choice to stay with you or go with them. But, let it be his choice. He might decide he wants to go with nanny after DD comes back having had a good time.

Also, you seem to be punishing him when he is already in a bad way. I would try positive reinforcement for good behaviour. And if course I would discuss this plan with nanny for her input and how she thinks it should be dealt with.

Children are always much harder work when their parents are around, and if the nanny is experienced then she was probably prepared for this possibility when taking the job.

I like madcows suggestion of rewarding nice behaviour. I would talk to the nanny about how you're going to tackle it, and just completely ignore the rudeness, behave as if you don't hear it.

Has the nanny come up with any suggestions as to how she thinks DS's behaviour should be managed?

Your post reminds me of when, as a new teacher, I took on a class of 8/9 year olds who'd had a turbulent term (first teacher sacked, replacement resigned after 3 days, long-term supply was slightly unhinged). When I started with them (I was already working at the school but not as a class teacher) the collective response was, "We're going to make you quit. We did that with the last one and we don't want you to be our teacher". 18 months later I was still their teacher, another 18 months after that they credited me with 'making us nice'. I didn't 'make them nice' at all, I just helped them to see that I wasn't their enemy and that they weren't in charge of who was hired and fired at the school.

I suppose the reason I'm sharing this is to urge you and the nanny to work together to devise a system that will ensure that the two of you are in charge and that your son doesn't end up getting additional attention from you when he's rude to the nanny. Rewarding positive behaviour is definitely the way forward - he could be awarded a star/point every time he remembers to be pleasant, unpleasantness should elicit no verbal response/eye contact but could perhaps result in both adults withdrawing attention from your son e.g. walk out of the room, actively seek out your daughter to do something with her (the technical name for this technique is 'direct reinforcement of other behaviours' - DRO).

Good luck!

My DS and sometimes now DD are occasionally foul to our AP's. The first one who was a lovely girl was told several times she was 'not part of our family'. Several Ap's later they are much better, I think they thought she was here to replace Mummy and have gradually realised thats not the case. We tell them off but I like the idea of a reward chart. Might try that one with DD who at 3 is sometimes mean if the AP tries to choose her clothes or help her get dressed.

Thank you very much for your responses - I feel much better about this now. I like the DRO idea - and DS has been better with the nanny over the past couple of days, as he seems to be starting to understand that she's not here to replace me. Thank you for all your advice everyone.