Not sure hiring a nanny is a good idea any more...

[Jenny79]

Oh my God.
This morning I was SO enthusiastic about hiring a nanny to share with one other mom. Now I have read all these threads about nanny contracts, sick pay, holidays, terminating employment etc etc and I just feel this is too difficult to take on.. You have to draft your own contract, sort out their tax, remain calm when they're lazy and 'terminate' them in compliance with contract and employment law...

Can someone convience me please that having a nanny is much better than nursery? Pros and cons anyone?

confused

Sorry I think a good nursery beats a nanny any day assuming you work standard hours and pick one either near to home or work. You don't have to worry about any sort of employment las, you don't ahve to worry about sick leave and maternity leave. You have the assurance you're not leaving your child with one total nutter - although of course as recent events have shown no arrangement is 100%, your child gets the compant of others and use of a wide range of toys and activities. You pick carefully then you pay your money and that's it, done! The one thing you don't get is a single person caring for your child. All I can tell you about that though is that my personal experience has been that this is not an issue. Dd3 adores the whole team at her nursery. They have been very stable in terms of turnover with only 2 people leaving in 18 months - and that was for maternity leave! Lots of cuddles, lots of focus on her as an idividual - we are all very happy. A good nanny is great of course but so is a good nursery. Have you looked at any?

It's swings and roundabouts really.

My DD loved her nursery, and so did I.
The part I didn't love was sitting on the tube stuck in a tunnel hoping I wouldn't be late for the pick up, rushing home with her and then getting about 10 minutes with her before she wanted her bed (as nursery was a long, full-on day). With a nanny mornings and evenings were way easier in general. The admin does suck though.

Pluses for us:

• No nursery sickness; everyone I know goes through a whole term (at least) of kids being sick being sent home from nursery, then having to take day off as they get used to new set of germs. Nanny's will stay home with them and usually don't go sick themselves - can have a duvet day

• You get to pick a bit more how they spend their time e.g. more time outside, choice of activities etc.

• Don't have to get them ready/fed in the morning

• Don't have to panic if 10 mins late (just let the nanny know and reciprocate)

• Known babysitter for evenings out

• In our case supports bilingualism as speaks same language as DH

Personally, I don't find the contractual stuff hard; get an agency to do payroll; they or MN folk can give you sample contracts etc.

Mumsnetters will help you with preparing contract if necessary, or just us a standard contract like the one at NannyJob. You will need to adapt it a bit as you are doing a share. Also being a share does complicate things a bit, in that you and the other mum need to agree things - best done in writing so you don't forget what your agreement is.
Get a payroll company like PAYEforNannies to do the monthly payroll. They will take you through the processes required to register as an employer and tell you what to pay to HMRC and when to pay it. As it is a share the payroll company will be able to advise you with regard to splitting payments if necessary.
Pros and Cons are similar to Childminder v Nursery, though with a nanny you have greater control than you would if you used a childminder... plus the nanny only cares for your children (or your children plus the share families children).
Need to know a lot more about the share arrangements really to be able to give more advice... as if the nanny isn't working in your home, then the advantages to you are a lot less I feel. Also if the hours you need childcare are pretty standard, then the advantage a nanny give of early start, late finish times isn't needed.
I think you have a baby boy, so the care in your home will be a plus point as if your son sleeps in, you don't need to wake him up. Your son will be familiar with his surroundings, so his separation anxiety may be reduced. He can be taken to places he likes and go back home again when he's had enough - he sort of controls things a bit... nanny is there to meet all his needs.

Why did you decide you wanted a nanny? What were the reasons for not going with a nursery or childminder? Think about what it was that made you consider a nanny in the first place... there must be reasons why you did feel that type of childcare was most suited.

It's certainly not the perfect solution to all of your problems and when things go wrong, they go wrong in a very bad way. I agree with all the good points re nannies above, but you've got to be prepared to deal with all the problems if they arise, and the time you spend/hassle you get if they happen would probably be much greater than the hassle of using a nursery. You should also be aware that the law generally sides with employees, not employers.

If you're keen on a nanny, make sure you recruit the right one (easier said than done) and set everything out clearly from the beginning, esp if it's a more complex arrangement like a nanny share.

If you were coming to this from scratch saying that you had one child, that you needed childcare between say 8am and 6pm. Then a nanny would not be what I would first be suggesting... I would be suggesting a Childminder.
Are those the sort of hours you are looking at? If so, have you visited local childminders? Have you ruled out childminders for some reason?

Thanks for all responses so far.

Confused about the difference between childminders/nannies? can someone explain?

The reasons I thought of doing a nanny share are:
1)I do work long hours in general, live in Fulham and will have to go to work in Canary Wharf so would need someone 8am-6pm (and flrxible about staying longer if i get stuck in tube...).
2) I thought that nanny share would come cheaper than nursery. Having said that, I havent done my homework yet and have absolutely NO IDEA what a nanny share would cost in Fulham. My local Bright Horizons nursery charge £1400 for 5 days and that's 8-5.30. I also have a new Montessori next to my bus stop, it's quite cheap (£255 a week), pretty convenient but all the staff were Asians (chinese i think) and their english was not great (we're Greek and want the baby to pick up english at the nursery, as we only speak greek to him)- they also did not have cots, they used mattresses on the floor for sleeping which I thought was odd (the Bright Horizons had many cots, most of them assigned to individual kids who come every day).

Still confused...

£1400 a term? month? A good nanny in your area will be on over £30K plus NI, tax etc.

Nannies work on your (or your shares) premises; childminders often have 4-6 kids and you take yours to them. Childminder likely to be cheaper.

Childminders - you take child there (childminder's own home) - there'll be other children too - it's home-based (ie at the carer's home) group childcare. Ratios of children to carer(s) controlled by law; all registered and inspected by govt (Ofsted). You can look up options/availability/inspection reports all online. Much more transparent than a nanny.

Nanny comes to yours (or, if you're doing a nanny-share) yours or the other family's. No regulation by govt, unless voluntary Ofsted registration is involved. But no compulsory registration/inspection.

Childminders' hours vary - if you need flexible hours then (if you're considering a childminder) you need to find one that does extended hours. Some do. The other issue is location - there are lots of people being childminders in outer London (where houses with enough room are not so expensive) but very few in central London. Have a look online (Childcare Info Service is the source) to see if it's an option for you at all.

Jenny - I forgot to say, a nanny is likely to be the best arrangement for you if you want a lot of control over your child's day. With a nursery you have to accept that sometimes you will pick your baby up and not all of his clothes will be in his bag, you can't dictate what activities he has been doing, that sort of thing. Although personally I think it is good to have a baby cared for with other children so would put up with those things.
It is also worth considering who you think will be sick more often; the baby or the nanny. It is not always the baby (nannies around us seem to think 10 days per year sick is entirely normal...).

Whereabouts are you in Fulham? We used to be down there and my DD was in the nursery that was Happy Times on Filmer Road. It has changed hands but might be worth a look, as it was well-equipped and purpose built with a decent garden and communal space. Plus it stays (or stayed) open to 6:30 pm.

the real drawback with nannies, from my point of view - after reading the horror stories - is that I may inform my employer that I am going back to work in Feb, agree with a nanny and then come Feb I really dislike the nanny and have to source a new one in sort time...

if my baby is in nursery and gets sick and I have to stay off work for 1-2 days to look after him, are these considered 'sick days' by my employer? or will they take them off my annual holiday entitlement??

If you choose and check your nanny carefully you will probably avoid the most common pitfalls. 99% of problems can be avoided by good communication and if you do spot things emerging that you don't like you need to nip them in the bud. I think that if you find a nanny you really click with you'll be fine and you'll be more prepared to make things work. An extended interviewing process (including a day trial) and decent settling in/handover period will help too.

As far as getting shot and re-hiring goes you can find good temps and there are almost always nannies looking for work for whatever reason - especially now with redundancies etc.

I think the horror stories on here are blown out of proportion because people rarely post about how happy they are with their nanny! I'm sure there are lots of happy employers out there.

Your days off would be considered parental leave.

Parental leave

Thanks for all the advice!!!
Can go to sleep a lot calmer 2night

As a professional nanny i am a little upset by the way you call a nanny a"total nutter" am i a total nutter. maybe , I work 11plus hours a day , rarely go off sick ,tidy up after parents even tho not part of my role but how can i work in messy house, cook nutritious food,provide love care and educatonal activities for the children,care for them when they are sick so parents can still go to work, make doctors appointments , ( on tuesday sat in A and E with child with ear pain so a doctor could look in his ears as local GP refusing appointment ) looked after said child screaming in pain for entire day and evening as mum was "going out for dinner" and never actually came home , also cared for childs twin sibling,administerd medicine took temperatures and made sure child hydrated , rarely take breaks during the day or get home before 8pm so dont eat proper dinner as who wants to start cooking at that time after a whole day of domesticity. ( after a week of sick child I still managed to care for his brother, cook all meals , clean and iron all their clothes, ) after the week like this I feel a bit upset to be called a total nutter in fact i think i might cry.

Time off sick wouldn't be parental leave, it would be this. Depending on your employer you may find them generous or you may find yourself labelled as unreliable. I've never taken a day off for ds's sickness since I went back to work after ML (no mean feat). A nanny is a far better option than nursery as far as sickness is concerned. Ds had a CM who would take him when he was ill thank god.

Jenny , go to the website for Nannytax, it explains everything and runs a payroll service , I used to work in fulham it was a lovely place to work as lots of facilities , activities for children . the montessori nursery doesnt sound to good to be honest , i think you would love a nanny share and it is nice for children if you get a nanny used to two babies . Do you know anyone else looking for a nanny . I think there is an agency that arranges shares but not sure.

But some nannies are total nutters - some want to be rocket scientists (or was that an au-pair?).

You really should eat dinner at a reasonable time you know Katherine... eat with the children. The you can have light supper when you get home if still hungry.

nannykatherine I believe the poster is referring to another thread where the nanny in question really was a total nutter. You sound like a very sensible, caring and professional nanny unlike some of the nannies who have been posted about here. I am assuming it's not you that is being referred to and none of the other nannies on here have taken offence.

In recent memory we have had:

a nanny who fed food off the floor, didn't know how to dress children appropriately for the weather and ripped bibs of a baby's neck leaving marks
a nanny who had a car crash but didn't tell the parent, allowed a baby to bang their head of a stone floor without telling the parent and rearranged the sitting room.....without telling the parent
and references to a nanny who wanted to treat a fever with vodka socks

I'm sure others could chip in with more...

Oh and by the way you are very easily identifiable with cross reference to another forum.

by the way ... am i trying to be incognito ..?????????/

Are you a norlander NannyKatherine? Trying to work out who you are... so clearly it isn't totally obvious.

not sure what frankinaround means either ? I am trying to find a site with sensible nannies so my first go on here.

In which case apologies. There is another nanny with twin charges, a very similar name and ear pain elsewhere on the itnernet. Just wanted to make you aware that there are people who frequent both sites and you may want to bear that in mind when posting.

I know that when I first registered on MN it would have been ridiculously easy to find me as my usernames were virtually identical.

but why would that matter ?